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klingklang77
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Re: Half time show
Posted by StarsStripes
I called it the moment I saw it...I knew there would be issues. I have no problem with celebrating black culture, however, the Black Panthers were notoriously an anti-white group that supported violence as a method of civil rights. It was the wrong forum to use as a platform because it alienated much of the population.
They were not an anti-white group. Please watch the documentary I posted earlier in the thread. It's very informative.
ETA: as for them being violent-- they armed themselves with guns because the police were beating the hell out of members in their community. They were seen as violent because they were protecting themselves. But when a white person buys a gun to protect themselves and their family, it's seen as "protection". Oh the hypocrisy!
I have not seen the video or the half time show, but I don't understand how people are coming to the conclusion that it's anti-police. From what I read, parts of the video symbolize other things, for example, the sinking cop car is in reference to Katrina and the poor response to certain areas in New Orleans.
Message edited 2/11/2016 3:55:11 AM.
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Posted 2/11/16 3:46 AM  |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Half time show
Posted by MrsProfessor
Posted by Kitten1929
I usually agree with things that you say JennP but this is baffling to me.
You have to understand that as a white person, dictating how and what BLM says or does is oppression. It's not a movement for white people. You don't have to get it, agree with it, understand it, or anything of the sort. Their struggle is not your struggle. Attempting to force inclusion out of their disenfranchisement is the ultimate hypocrisy. Saying they have a right to free speech, but shouldn't use it to express themselves? I don't understand that. The fact that any white person wants to dictate their message is oppression - it's very simple. If they made more thoughtful statements maybe we'd get somewhere? I shouldn't have to explain why that thought process is so harmful and problematic.
I read a quote that really sums up this whole issue:
Rather than saying racism doesn't exist, just say you don't care. It's easier to respect, less insulting, and more accurate.
It's not about wanting to dictate their message but wanting to see them present their message in a way that will get them what they want- I want to see this group be able to bring about change but doing things like disrupting a Bernie Sanders rally and not allowing him to speak (which I know was a few months ago) is foolish especially since he might be the only one running who really cares about people of color. I think if they were more strategic in their approach that they would get more traction.
This expresses my feelings exactly. Well said!
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| Posted 2/11/16 8:13 AM |
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soontobemommyof2
My boys...my everything <3
Member since 4/15 3635 total posts
Name:
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Re: Half time show
Posted by StarsStripes
I called it the moment I saw it...I knew there would be issues. I have no problem with celebrating black culture, however, the Black Panthers were notoriously an anti-white group that supported violence as a method of civil rights. It was the wrong forum to use as a platform because it alienated much of the population.
Yeap. I wonder how come she didn't go with MLK instead (which had an amazing way of fighting the cause) considering the theme that night was love.
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| Posted 2/11/16 9:12 AM |
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Kitten1929
LIF Adult
Member since 1/13 6040 total posts
Name:
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Re: Half time show
I realize that my opinion is an unpopular one. But please know that my posts do not come with any kind of tone – if we were speaking person to person, I would be speaking in a calm and cool voice. There is no condescension or superiority to my voice. Tone policing however is a derailment technique, one of many I’ve seen here on this thread. Derailment techniques are ones that seek to invalidate, center, or restructure the conversation away from the issue at hand – and when hot button topics are being discussed, this is usually the way it goes. When people’s opinions are challenged they get defensive, and sometimes they tune out what is being said. I’m very used to all of this. I don’t expect to change many people’s minds, in fact, I know I won’t. But I won’t stop interrupting these conversations, because maybe someone will be open to what I am saying, willing to think outside the box, and to listen without their inner privilege trying to derail the conversation. Microaggressions have no place in my world, unintentional racism, white fragility and privilege have no place in my world. I don’t need Internet claps that are directed in a way to make me feel…stupid? Silly for being the odd person out? This is not a pretty conversation to be having in the first place, but I’m here for it.
If you don’t understand the world of racism outside your bubble, own it. Don’t try to fight back with assumptions, white tears, whitesplaining or white fragility. You won’t get anywhere with someone who is entrenched with interrupting racism – they just won’t see it your way because your way is fraught with privilege. The only people who will pat you on the back are people just like you who think everyone else is “keeping the race thing alive” and being “divisive.” Only when you attempt to understand privilege, how it affects you, why it affects you, in current and historical contexts, can you even start the process of fighting racism, and even then, there is tons of work to be done in personal self-reflection, awareness and education. It’s not a noble world we live in, a Kumabaya “if we could all just get along and be happy” kind of world that can overcome hundreds of years of oppression and racism.
I’m not interested in fighting with people who aren’t open to listening. It’s unproductive and fruitless. I’m not responsible for the way you think. If you’re interested in hearing what I have to say, maybe I can help. Agreeing to disagree is just a cop out. You can’t get anywhere valuable that way. It’s just two people walking away still thinking the same way they always have.
You can tear me down on LIF all you want, but it’s not going to stop me. I will simply keep it moving.
For anyone who is interested in articles pertaining to some of the phrases I mentioned above, here are some starting points:
On Racism and White Privilege
Why It's So Hard to Talk to White People About White Fragility
10 Examples of White Privilege
Understanding White Privilege
Whiteplaining Whitesplaing to the Whitesplainers
Colorblind Ideology is a From of Racism
Saying You Don't See Race is Part of the Problem
Derailing for Dummies
Tone Policing
Stop Using Marting Luther King Jr as a Defense
Message edited 2/11/2016 9:29:01 AM.
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| Posted 2/11/16 9:26 AM |
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11489 total posts
Name:
Völlig losgelöst
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Re: Half time show
Posted by soontobemommyof2
Posted by StarsStripes
I called it the moment I saw it...I knew there would be issues. I have no problem with celebrating black culture, however, the Black Panthers were notoriously an anti-white group that supported violence as a method of civil rights. It was the wrong forum to use as a platform because it alienated much of the population.
Yeap. I wonder how come she didn't go with MLK instead (which had an amazing way of fighting the cause) considering the theme that night was love.
You need to get past the idea that the Black Panthers were completely bad.
The Black Panthers did something MLK didn't do. They brought attention to gender roles and women. They were 2/3s women. This is something that she relates to.
Another thing they did was make the Afro popular again. There was a whole fashion movement and this made blacks proud.
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| Posted 2/11/16 9:48 AM |
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11489 total posts
Name:
Völlig losgelöst
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Re: Half time show
Kitten thanks for the links!
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| Posted 2/11/16 9:48 AM |
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Re: Half time show
Posted by Kitten1929
I realize that my opinion is an unpopular one. But please know that my posts do not come with any kind of tone – if we were speaking person to person, I would be speaking in a calm and cool voice. There is no condescension or superiority to my voice. Tone policing however is a derailment technique, one of many I’ve seen here on this thread. Derailment techniques are ones that seek to invalidate, center, or restructure the conversation away from the issue at hand – and when hot button topics are being discussed, this is usually the way it goes. When people’s opinions are challenged they get defensive, and sometimes they tune out what is being said. I’m very used to all of this. I don’t expect to change many people’s minds, in fact, I know I won’t. But I won’t stop interrupting these conversations, because maybe someone will be open to what I am saying, willing to think outside the box, and to listen without their inner privilege trying to derail the conversation. Microaggressions have no place in my world, unintentional racism, white fragility and privilege have no place in my world. I don’t need Internet claps that are directed in a way to make me feel…stupid? Silly for being the odd person out? This is not a pretty conversation to be having in the first place, but I’m here for it.
If you don’t understand the world of racism outside your bubble, own it. Don’t try to fight back with assumptions, white tears, whitesplaining or white fragility. You won’t get anywhere with someone who is entrenched with interrupting racism – they just won’t see it your way because your way is fraught with privilege. The only people who will pat you on the back are people just like you who think everyone else is “keeping the race thing alive” and being “divisive.” Only when you attempt to understand privilege, how it affects you, why it affects you, in current and historical contexts, can you even start the process of fighting racism, and even then, there is tons of work to be done in personal self-reflection, awareness and education. It’s not a noble world we live in, a Kumabaya “if we could all just get along and be happy” kind of world that can overcome hundreds of years of oppression and racism.
I’m not interested in fighting with people who aren’t open to listening. It’s unproductive and fruitless. I’m not responsible for the way you think. If you’re interested in hearing what I have to say, maybe I can help. Agreeing to disagree is just a cop out. You can’t get anywhere valuable that way. It’s just two people walking away still thinking the same way they always have.
You can tear me down on LIF all you want, but it’s not going to stop me. I will simply keep it moving.
For anyone who is interested in articles pertaining to some of the phrases I mentioned above, here are some starting points:
On Racism and White Privilege
Why It's So Hard to Talk to White People About White Fragility
10 Examples of White Privilege
Understanding White Privilege
Whiteplaining Whitesplaing to the Whitesplainers
Colorblind Ideology is a From of Racism
Saying You Don't See Race is Part of the Problem
Derailing for Dummies
Tone Policing
Stop Using Marting Luther King Jr as a Defense
Thanks for those links. And you're not alone. I have the same sentiments.
From Dame Magazine link:
It’s most definitely not the place of a White person to tell the Black Lives Matter protesters how to run a revolution, whether in Ferguson, New York City, Baltimore, or anywhere else. Because that is what this is: a revolution. Yes, a CVS was burned down and a mall was looted, and chaos broke out. But where was our outrage during the subprime mortgage crisis that left Baltimore devastated and its inhabitants homeless and scrambling? And where was the righteous rage when a bunch of White kids tore apart Keane, New Hampshire and lit the town on fire because of … pumpkins? Pumpkins!!
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| Posted 2/11/16 9:56 AM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Half time show
Posted by Kitten1929
I realize that my opinion is an unpopular one. But please know that my posts do not come with any kind of tone – if we were speaking person to person, I would be speaking in a calm and cool voice. There is no condescension or superiority to my voice. Tone policing however is a derailment technique, one of many I’ve seen here on this thread. Derailment techniques are ones that seek to invalidate, center, or restructure the conversation away from the issue at hand – and when hot button topics are being discussed, this is usually the way it goes. When people’s opinions are challenged they get defensive, and sometimes they tune out what is being said. I’m very used to all of this. I don’t expect to change many people’s minds, in fact, I know I won’t. But I won’t stop interrupting these conversations, because maybe someone will be open to what I am saying, willing to think outside the box, and to listen without their inner privilege trying to derail the conversation. Microaggressions have no place in my world, unintentional racism, white fragility and privilege have no place in my world. I don’t need Internet claps that are directed in a way to make me feel…stupid? Silly for being the odd person out? This is not a pretty conversation to be having in the first place, but I’m here for it.
If you don’t understand the world of racism outside your bubble, own it. Don’t try to fight back with assumptions, white tears, whitesplaining or white fragility. You won’t get anywhere with someone who is entrenched with interrupting racism – they just won’t see it your way because your way is fraught with privilege. The only people who will pat you on the back are people just like you who think everyone else is “keeping the race thing alive” and being “divisive.” Only when you attempt to understand privilege, how it affects you, why it affects you, in current and historical contexts, can you even start the process of fighting racism, and even then, there is tons of work to be done in personal self-reflection, awareness and education. It’s not a noble world we live in, a Kumabaya “if we could all just get along and be happy” kind of world that can overcome hundreds of years of oppression and racism.
I’m not interested in fighting with people who aren’t open to listening. It’s unproductive and fruitless. I’m not responsible for the way you think. If you’re interested in hearing what I have to say, maybe I can help. Agreeing to disagree is just a cop out. You can’t get anywhere valuable that way. It’s just two people walking away still thinking the same way they always have.
You can tear me down on LIF all you want, but it’s not going to stop me. I will simply keep it moving.
For anyone who is interested in articles pertaining to some of the phrases I mentioned above, here are some starting points:
On Racism and White Privilege
Why It's So Hard to Talk to White People About White Fragility
10 Examples of White Privilege
Understanding White Privilege
Whiteplaining Whitesplaing to the Whitesplainers
Colorblind Ideology is a From of Racism
Saying You Don't See Race is Part of the Problem
Derailing for Dummies
Tone Policing
Stop Using Marting Luther King Jr as a Defense
Oh, it had nothing to do with your tone. I couldn't know your tone. You wrote it, and it was your words.
I'm not sure if you are still speaking only to me or to the population in general but please know that your post is fraught with presumptions about people's beliefs and willingness to be reflective.
I work with disadvantaged black youth ALL DAY and every single day I am faced with the fact that I will never understand their lives and their struggle and yet I still try to, all the while trying to serve them in whatever way I can.
I've seen the videos and read the articles. Literally. I am familiar with those and similar links.
I walk the walk and owe no one explanations.
I won't shy away from difficult conversations, but I can fight racism without believing that doing so eclipses the need for common decency and kindness, which are essential to the fabric of society. Black or white.
Message edited 2/11/2016 10:04:33 AM.
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| Posted 2/11/16 10:02 AM |
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Re: Half time show
Posted by klingklang77
Posted by soontobemommyof2
Posted by StarsStripes
I called it the moment I saw it...I knew there would be issues. I have no problem with celebrating black culture, however, the Black Panthers were notoriously an anti-white group that supported violence as a method of civil rights. It was the wrong forum to use as a platform because it alienated much of the population.
Yeap. I wonder how come she didn't go with MLK instead (which had an amazing way of fighting the cause) considering the theme that night was love.
You need to get past the idea that the Black Panthers were completely bad.
The Black Panthers did something MLK didn't do. They brought attention to gender roles and women. They were 2/3s women. This is something that she relates to.
Another thing they did was make the Afro popular again. There was a whole fashion movement and this made blacks proud.
Yes. I feel like all people know about is MLK. Because that's what we are taught. It's all MLK and Rosa Parks, especially this month. And that's pretty much it. It's sad. My kids are going to know way more than just MLK and RP. Just like when my oldest came home talking
About Columbus discovering America. I told him no, he didn't discover it. People were here already. And frankly, Columbus was a total ****. I'm not having my children exposed to the whitewashing of history.
It's so infuriating that the only black people kids learn about are those who protested peacefully. Meanwhile, they can learn about a bunch of wars where blood was shed. If they can learn about that, they can learn about those who took a rightfully more agressive approach for their own basic equality.
Message edited 2/11/2016 10:09:06 AM.
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| Posted 2/11/16 10:07 AM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Half time show
Posted by EatingMyVeggies
Posted by Kitten1929
I realize that my opinion is an unpopular one. But please know that my posts do not come with any kind of tone – if we were speaking person to person, I would be speaking in a calm and cool voice. There is no condescension or superiority to my voice. Tone policing however is a derailment technique, one of many I’ve seen here on this thread. Derailment techniques are ones that seek to invalidate, center, or restructure the conversation away from the issue at hand – and when hot button topics are being discussed, this is usually the way it goes. When people’s opinions are challenged they get defensive, and sometimes they tune out what is being said. I’m very used to all of this. I don’t expect to change many people’s minds, in fact, I know I won’t. But I won’t stop interrupting these conversations, because maybe someone will be open to what I am saying, willing to think outside the box, and to listen without their inner privilege trying to derail the conversation. Microaggressions have no place in my world, unintentional racism, white fragility and privilege have no place in my world. I don’t need Internet claps that are directed in a way to make me feel…stupid? Silly for being the odd person out? This is not a pretty conversation to be having in the first place, but I’m here for it.
If you don’t understand the world of racism outside your bubble, own it. Don’t try to fight back with assumptions, white tears, whitesplaining or white fragility. You won’t get anywhere with someone who is entrenched with interrupting racism – they just won’t see it your way because your way is fraught with privilege. The only people who will pat you on the back are people just like you who think everyone else is “keeping the race thing alive” and being “divisive.” Only when you attempt to understand privilege, how it affects you, why it affects you, in current and historical contexts, can you even start the process of fighting racism, and even then, there is tons of work to be done in personal self-reflection, awareness and education. It’s not a noble world we live in, a Kumabaya “if we could all just get along and be happy” kind of world that can overcome hundreds of years of oppression and racism.
I’m not interested in fighting with people who aren’t open to listening. It’s unproductive and fruitless. I’m not responsible for the way you think. If you’re interested in hearing what I have to say, maybe I can help. Agreeing to disagree is just a cop out. You can’t get anywhere valuable that way. It’s just two people walking away still thinking the same way they always have.
You can tear me down on LIF all you want, but it’s not going to stop me. I will simply keep it moving.
For anyone who is interested in articles pertaining to some of the phrases I mentioned above, here are some starting points:
On Racism and White Privilege
Why It's So Hard to Talk to White People About White Fragility
10 Examples of White Privilege
Understanding White Privilege
Whiteplaining Whitesplaing to the Whitesplainers
Colorblind Ideology is a From of Racism
Saying You Don't See Race is Part of the Problem
Derailing for Dummies
Tone Policing
Stop Using Marting Luther King Jr as a Defense
Thanks for those links. And you're not alone. I have the same sentiments.
From Dame Magazine link:
Yes, a CVS was burned down and a mall was looted, and chaos broke out.
Said as if that's nothing.
I just can't get on board with this being the answer.
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| Posted 2/11/16 10:10 AM |
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Half time show
JennP - I commend what you do, respect what you do. I think it's a good topic for people to discuss but I'm out of energy for the morning  my only hope is one day things change so much for the better for all our kids.
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| Posted 2/11/16 10:13 AM |
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soontobemommyof2
My boys...my everything <3
Member since 4/15 3635 total posts
Name:
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Re: Half time show
Posted by EatingMyVeggies
Posted by klingklang77
Posted by soontobemommyof2
Posted by StarsStripes
I called it the moment I saw it...I knew there would be issues. I have no problem with celebrating black culture, however, the Black Panthers were notoriously an anti-white group that supported violence as a method of civil rights. It was the wrong forum to use as a platform because it alienated much of the population.
Yeap. I wonder how come she didn't go with MLK instead (which had an amazing way of fighting the cause) considering the theme that night was love.
You need to get past the idea that the Black Panthers were completely bad.
The Black Panthers did something MLK didn't do. They brought attention to gender roles and women. They were 2/3s women. This is something that she relates to.
Another thing they did was make the Afro popular again. There was a whole fashion movement and this made blacks proud.
Yes. I feel like all people know about is MLK. Because that's what we are taught. It's all MLK and Rosa Parks, especially this month. And that's pretty much it. It's sad. My kids are going to know way more than just MLK and RP. Just like when my oldest came home talking
About Columbus discovering America. I told him no, he didn't discover it. People were here already. And frankly, Columbus was a total ****. I'm not having my children exposed to the whitewashing of history.
It's so infuriating that the only black people kids learn about are those who protested peacefully. Meanwhile, they can learn about a bunch of wars where blood was shed. If they can learn about that, they can learn about those who took a rightfully more agressive approach for their own basic equality.
I definitely agree with you about teaching our kids about history, all there is about history and not only specific aspects. But to me violence doesn't equal violence no matter what I'm "fighting" for and I think that's the reason that made MLK so relevant throughout times. All minorities identify with him and his idealisms, not only black people, which believe me, they're not the only ones that face racism (and interestingly enough those other minorities are the ones that somehow seem forgotten among this whole controversy.) The same thing applies to Gandhi, he believed violence was never the answer to anything, and I, as a parent would much rather have my children follow that type of approach and pursue something peacefully than violently.
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| Posted 2/11/16 10:32 AM |
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soontobemommyof2
My boys...my everything <3
Member since 4/15 3635 total posts
Name:
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Re: Half time show
Posted by JennP
Posted by EatingMyVeggies
Thanks for those links. And you're not alone. I have the same sentiments.
From Dame Magazine link:
Yes, a CVS was burned down and a mall was looted, and chaos broke out.
Said as if that's nothing.
I just can't get on board with this being the answer.
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| Posted 2/11/16 10:35 AM |
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11489 total posts
Name:
Völlig losgelöst
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Re: Half time show
Posted by soontobemommyof2
Posted by EatingMyVeggies
Posted by klingklang77
Posted by soontobemommyof2
Posted by StarsStripes
I called it the moment I saw it...I knew there would be issues. I have no problem with celebrating black culture, however, the Black Panthers were notoriously an anti-white group that supported violence as a method of civil rights. It was the wrong forum to use as a platform because it alienated much of the population.
Yeap. I wonder how come she didn't go with MLK instead (which had an amazing way of fighting the cause) considering the theme that night was love.
You need to get past the idea that the Black Panthers were completely bad.
The Black Panthers did something MLK didn't do. They brought attention to gender roles and women. They were 2/3s women. This is something that she relates to.
Another thing they did was make the Afro popular again. There was a whole fashion movement and this made blacks proud.
Yes. I feel like all people know about is MLK. Because that's what we are taught. It's all MLK and Rosa Parks, especially this month. And that's pretty much it. It's sad. My kids are going to know way more than just MLK and RP. Just like when my oldest came home talking
About Columbus discovering America. I told him no, he didn't discover it. People were here already. And frankly, Columbus was a total ****. I'm not having my children exposed to the whitewashing of history.
It's so infuriating that the only black people kids learn about are those who protested peacefully. Meanwhile, they can learn about a bunch of wars where blood was shed. If they can learn about that, they can learn about those who took a rightfully more agressive approach for their own basic equality.
I definitely agree with you about teaching our kids about history, all there is about history and not only specific aspects. But to me violence doesn't equal violence no matter what I'm "fighting" for and I think that's the reason that made MLK so relevant throughout times. All minorities identify with him and his idealisms, not only black people, which believe me, they're not the only ones that face racism (and interestingly enough those other minorities are the ones that somehow seem forgotten among this whole controversy.) The same thing applies to Gandhi, he believed violence was never the answer to anything, and I, as a parent would much rather have my children follow that type of approach and pursue something peacefully than violently.
Have you read the link Kitten posted about MLK? It's the last one.
Oh and another http://flavorwire.com/516442/mahatma-gandhi-baltimore-and-the-myth-of-nonviolence
Message edited 2/11/2016 11:24:28 AM.
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| Posted 2/11/16 10:42 AM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Half time show
Posted by EatingMyVeggies
JennP - I commend what you do, respect what you do. I think it's a good topic for people to discuss but I'm out of energy for the morning my only hope is one day things change so much for the better for all our kids.
Thank you. I definitely share that hope!
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| Posted 2/11/16 11:20 AM |
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Kitten1929
LIF Adult
Member since 1/13 6040 total posts
Name:
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Re: Half time show
Posted by JennP
Posted by EatingMyVeggies
Posted by Kitten1929
I realize that my opinion is an unpopular one. But please know that my posts do not come with any kind of tone – if we were speaking person to person, I would be speaking in a calm and cool voice. There is no condescension or superiority to my voice. Tone policing however is a derailment technique, one of many I’ve seen here on this thread. Derailment techniques are ones that seek to invalidate, center, or restructure the conversation away from the issue at hand – and when hot button topics are being discussed, this is usually the way it goes. When people’s opinions are challenged they get defensive, and sometimes they tune out what is being said. I’m very used to all of this. I don’t expect to change many people’s minds, in fact, I know I won’t. But I won’t stop interrupting these conversations, because maybe someone will be open to what I am saying, willing to think outside the box, and to listen without their inner privilege trying to derail the conversation. Microaggressions have no place in my world, unintentional racism, white fragility and privilege have no place in my world. I don’t need Internet claps that are directed in a way to make me feel…stupid? Silly for being the odd person out? This is not a pretty conversation to be having in the first place, but I’m here for it.
If you don’t understand the world of racism outside your bubble, own it. Don’t try to fight back with assumptions, white tears, whitesplaining or white fragility. You won’t get anywhere with someone who is entrenched with interrupting racism – they just won’t see it your way because your way is fraught with privilege. The only people who will pat you on the back are people just like you who think everyone else is “keeping the race thing alive” and being “divisive.” Only when you attempt to understand privilege, how it affects you, why it affects you, in current and historical contexts, can you even start the process of fighting racism, and even then, there is tons of work to be done in personal self-reflection, awareness and education. It’s not a noble world we live in, a Kumabaya “if we could all just get along and be happy” kind of world that can overcome hundreds of years of oppression and racism.
I’m not interested in fighting with people who aren’t open to listening. It’s unproductive and fruitless. I’m not responsible for the way you think. If you’re interested in hearing what I have to say, maybe I can help. Agreeing to disagree is just a cop out. You can’t get anywhere valuable that way. It’s just two people walking away still thinking the same way they always have.
You can tear me down on LIF all you want, but it’s not going to stop me. I will simply keep it moving.
For anyone who is interested in articles pertaining to some of the phrases I mentioned above, here are some starting points:
On Racism and White Privilege
Why It's So Hard to Talk to White People About White Fragility
10 Examples of White Privilege
Understanding White Privilege
Whiteplaining Whitesplaing to the Whitesplainers
Colorblind Ideology is a From of Racism
Saying You Don't See Race is Part of the Problem
Derailing for Dummies
Tone Policing
Stop Using Marting Luther King Jr as a Defense
Thanks for those links. And you're not alone. I have the same sentiments.
From Dame Magazine link:
Yes, a CVS was burned down and a mall was looted, and chaos broke out.
Said as if that's nothing.
I just can't get on board with this being the answer.
.
Message edited 2/11/2016 12:16:14 PM.
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| Posted 2/11/16 12:10 PM |
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shadows
LIF Adult
Member since 1/10 4694 total posts
Name:
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Re: Half time show
Posted by 2BadSoSad
Posted by JennP
Posted by Kitten1929
Posted by kahlua716
Posted by JennP
Posted by EatingMyVeggies
I think you can be pro black lives matter without being anti police. The things that have happened & continue to happen in this day and age are atrocious. And not just with cops but also with situations like Katrina.
I just don't think that any time someone speaks out against the ills of law enforcement - (and let's not kid ourselves, no establishment is without its evils, it's flaws, with room for reform and/or improvement) - that suddenly you're disrespecting an entire force, you know? You're simply speaking up for the victims and desiring to better things as a whole for everyone.
I totally agree with this.
However, I think communication is a major issue.
The "black lives matter" ideology is too often delivered in a way that damages the cause.
I did not see the halftime show - if the Giants don't make it to the Superbowl I couldn't care less - but I do think Beyonce sitting on top of a sinking police car is in poor taste.
Yes, I hold the concept of free speech as dear as anyone else. But just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
On the flip side, people who take the opposite view are very quick to label some as "anti police" when all they want is to be treated fairly.
If people on both sides made their statements more thoughtfully maybe we'd get somewhere.
I usually agree with things that you say JennP but this is baffling to me.
You have to understand that as a white person, dictating how and what BLM says or does is oppression. It's not a movement for white people. You don't have to get it, agree with it, understand it, or anything of the sort. Their struggle is not your struggle. Attempting to force inclusion out of their disenfranchisement is the ultimate hypocrisy. Saying they have a right to free speech, but shouldn't use it to express themselves? I don't understand that. The fact that any white person wants to dictate their message is oppression - it's very simple. If they made more thoughtful statements maybe we'd get somewhere? I shouldn't have to explain why that thought process is so harmful and problematic.
I read a quote that really sums up this whole issue:
Rather than saying racism doesn't exist, just say you don't care. It's easier to respect, less insulting, and more accurate.
We are going to have to agree to disagree on our interpretations of the concept of oppression.
I don't believe stating that Beyonce could have used a better way to make a statement than showing a scene that COULD be interpreted as wishing death to the police could be the definition of oppression.
It's your condescension that's harmful. Save it. I am well educated, I teach Social Studies, and I understand the historical context of the topic.
We usually agree, but here we differ. Let's keep it moving.
thank god someone said it. You speak to everyone on here like we are uneducated ignorant people when it comes to this topic. You're tone everytime this comes up has been rubbing me the wrong way as well (and I normally find you enjoyable and I owe you bc you recommended the hot air brush and i haven't had a bad hair day since).
I just feel like others are making similar points without sounding so darn offensive and superior - to the point where the conversation is no longer enjoyable. It's as though you are an unenlightened fool if you dare to have a different opinion.
Oops there I go tone policing again
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| Posted 2/11/16 1:59 PM |
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KateBennetReel
LIF Adolescent
Member since 10/15 555 total posts
Name:
Keep
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Re: Half time show
Just for the record, I am enjoying this thread. Even more so towards the end.
Especially all the informative links.
I'm not a Bey fan pe se, but the discussion she's inspired on this family chat forum in Long Island has provoked a little more interest.
I feel empowered by education.
Thanks to all the posters open to sharing knowledge.
Greatly appreciated.
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| Posted 2/11/16 4:24 PM |
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11489 total posts
Name:
Völlig losgelöst
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Re: Half time show
Posted by shadows
I just feel like others are making similar points without sounding so darn offensive and superior - to the point where the conversation is no longer enjoyable. It's as though you are an unenlightened fool if you dare to have a different opinion.
Oops there I go tone policing again
I don't think she is being very offensive or superior. Perhaps, b/c I agree with her .
But really, it's an emotional topic for some. She added a lot to the topic with helpful links. The topic can make some people uncomfortable, but at least we are talking about it.
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| Posted 2/11/16 4:56 PM |
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babyfever24
LIF Adult
Member since 1/11 3340 total posts
Name:
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Re: Half time show
Posted by gina409
My opinion aside on the message/idea/or whatever the video is about
That is one of the stupidest songs I ever heard,and i like her Music
When my man **ck me
Good I take him
To red lobster??? This is music now??
NO SHOT BEYONCE GOES TO RED LOBSTER OKKKKKK
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| Posted 2/11/16 7:07 PM |
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StarsStripes
LIF Adult
Member since 12/12 1192 total posts
Name:
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Re: Half time show
Posted by klingklang77
Posted by StarsStripes
I called it the moment I saw it...I knew there would be issues. I have no problem with celebrating black culture, however, the Black Panthers were notoriously an anti-white group that supported violence as a method of civil rights. It was the wrong forum to use as a platform because it alienated much of the population.
They were not an anti-white group. Please watch the documentary I posted earlier in the thread. It's very informative.
ETA: as for them being violent-- they armed themselves with guns because the police were beating the hell out of members in their community. They were seen as violent because they were protecting themselves. But when a white person buys a gun to protect themselves and their family, it's seen as "protection". Oh the hypocrisy!
I have not seen the video or the half time show, but I don't understand how people are coming to the conclusion that it's anti-police. From what I read, parts of the video symbolize other things, for example, the sinking cop car is in reference to Katrina and the poor response to certain areas in New Orleans.
Ok, I'll have to watch the video. I also did not feel a sense anti-cop when I watched it. Really I just thought it took a happy half time show and politicized it...and I've honestly have had enough with politics lately lol
Message edited 2/11/2016 9:03:53 PM.
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| Posted 2/11/16 9:03 PM |
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kahlua716
3 Girls for Me!
Member since 8/07 12475 total posts
Name:
Keri
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Re: Half time show
Posted by JennP
Posted by Kitten1929
I realize that my opinion is an unpopular one. But please know that my posts do not come with any kind of tone – if we were speaking person to person, I would be speaking in a calm and cool voice. There is no condescension or superiority to my voice. Tone policing however is a derailment technique, one of many I’ve seen here on this thread. Derailment techniques are ones that seek to invalidate, center, or restructure the conversation away from the issue at hand – and when hot button topics are being discussed, this is usually the way it goes. When people’s opinions are challenged they get defensive, and sometimes they tune out what is being said. I’m very used to all of this. I don’t expect to change many people’s minds, in fact, I know I won’t. But I won’t stop interrupting these conversations, because maybe someone will be open to what I am saying, willing to think outside the box, and to listen without their inner privilege trying to derail the conversation. Microaggressions have no place in my world, unintentional racism, white fragility and privilege have no place in my world. I don’t need Internet claps that are directed in a way to make me feel…stupid? Silly for being the odd person out? This is not a pretty conversation to be having in the first place, but I’m here for it.
If you don’t understand the world of racism outside your bubble, own it. Don’t try to fight back with assumptions, white tears, whitesplaining or white fragility. You won’t get anywhere with someone who is entrenched with interrupting racism – they just won’t see it your way because your way is fraught with privilege. The only people who will pat you on the back are people just like you who think everyone else is “keeping the race thing alive” and being “divisive.” Only when you attempt to understand privilege, how it affects you, why it affects you, in current and historical contexts, can you even start the process of fighting racism, and even then, there is tons of work to be done in personal self-reflection, awareness and education. It’s not a noble world we live in, a Kumabaya “if we could all just get along and be happy” kind of world that can overcome hundreds of years of oppression and racism.
I’m not interested in fighting with people who aren’t open to listening. It’s unproductive and fruitless. I’m not responsible for the way you think. If you’re interested in hearing what I have to say, maybe I can help. Agreeing to disagree is just a cop out. You can’t get anywhere valuable that way. It’s just two people walking away still thinking the same way they always have.
You can tear me down on LIF all you want, but it’s not going to stop me. I will simply keep it moving.
For anyone who is interested in articles pertaining to some of the phrases I mentioned above, here are some starting points:
On Racism and White Privilege
Why It's So Hard to Talk to White People About White Fragility
10 Examples of White Privilege
Understanding White Privilege
Whiteplaining Whitesplaing to the Whitesplainers
Colorblind Ideology is a From of Racism
Saying You Don't See Race is Part of the Problem
Derailing for Dummies
Tone Policing
Stop Using Marting Luther King Jr as a Defense
Oh, it had nothing to do with your tone. I couldn't know your tone. You wrote it, and it was your words.
I'm not sure if you are still speaking only to me or to the population in general but please know that your post is fraught with presumptions about people's beliefs and willingness to be reflective.
I work with disadvantaged black youth ALL DAY and every single day I am faced with the fact that I will never understand their lives and their struggle and yet I still try to, all the while trying to serve them in whatever way I can.
I've seen the videos and read the articles. Literally. I am familiar with those and similar links.
I walk the walk and owe no one explanations.
I won't shy away from difficult conversations, but I can fight racism without believing that doing so eclipses the need for common decency and kindness, which are essential to the fabric of society. Black or white.
Well said.
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| Posted 2/11/16 10:56 PM |
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