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Kings Park Sexting Scandal - High School
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2girlsforme
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Member since 8/06 3071 total posts
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XXXXXXXXX
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Re: Kings Park Sexting Scandal - High School
Posted by Katareen
Posted by 2girlsforme
Posted by Katareen
How does the school know if a child reported it to their parent and the parent ultimately decided to do nothing?
I'm sure there are a good amount of parents who would tell their child to mind their own business if their son or daughter approached them and told them there was a video circulating of two kids fooling around ( and didn't have explicit details that it was sex, The age of the kids, etc)
It really doesn't matter what the parents did or didn't do. The suspensions were predicated on violation of the school code of conduct and the Dignity Act.
The video is purportedly sexual in nature. The girl is having a Vape inserted into her vagina while the other boy recorded it.
They were all reportedly drunk/high and it happened at a party. IMO, that's the conversation that needs to be happening, where the hell was this party and where the hell were the parents.
And, for the record, shame on any parent who chose to ignore this.
But does the code state that a teacher must be told, or just an adult??
My understanding is the code refers to informing the school. I'm not in a position to check right now. But, as a parent, if you're unhappy with the code of conduct, the only recourse you have would be to take your child out of the school. I MO, if the parent chose to disregard the video then their child has to suffer the consequence. We have all been advised that the kids are subject to a code of conduct.
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Posted 11/12/15 11:55 AM  |
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KarenK122
The Journey is the Destination
Member since 5/05 4431 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Re: Kings Park Sexting Scandal - High School
Posted by Katareen
But does the code state that a teacher must be told, or just an adult??
Does it matter? If the child can prove that they told their parents and the parents did nothing, then the parents can be brought up on child pornography charges.
The point is, anyone that has a phone/internet/texting access needs to understand and obey the rules. It is cut and dry. There is no "ignorance of the law" defense that will protect you from child pornography.
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| Posted 11/12/15 1:11 PM |
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Seawolf
LIF Adult
Member since 3/14 1336 total posts
Name:
Scrumba
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Re: Kings Park Sexting Scandal - High School
Yikes, I thought it was some kid who reported 2 others having sex. I didnt realize it was a rape situation!
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| Posted 11/12/15 1:24 PM |
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seaside
LIF Adult
Member since 6/08 3101 total posts
Name:
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Re: Kings Park Sexting Scandal - High School
Posted by Jugglemom
Posted by KarenK122
Posted by seaside
Posted by PitterPatter11
Posted by seaside
Watching it and passing it along are punishable. But receiving and deleting?
If she was too young to give consent, how were kids who were never told about any duty to report old enough to intuit that they had one?
Unless they were told?
I would assume they've been told. School districts have been required to provide DASA training to students and staff for the last 4-5 years. Literally every single year, my school goes over the implications of bullying and sexting. Sexting between teens is technically legal although reflects poor judgment, but forwarding the sext is illegal.
I'd be interested to know the answer. And then what about kids who deleted it without opening it? Or who didn't know what it was, but deleted it when it got weird? Under this rule, someone could frame someone they hated or barely knew just by sending them the text. Plus, I am not sure that by virtue of having a phone, the kids could be compelled to speak or be punished. It sounds like a constitutional violation.
If someone opened it and turned off or just deleted it because they were uncomfortable should have opened their mouths and told someone. That is the problem. By doing nothing they are just has guilty as those that watched it. As far as the schools, they need to do training with their students and I hope because of this they have to do more but regardless of what the school teaches and doesn't teach, it is up to the parents to make sure your children know the laws. Any parent that gives their child a phone/internet access/texting and does not have a conversation about appropriate and inappropriate behavior is shameful.
I wholeheartedly disagree that kids who didn't view it/deleted are just as guilty. The law places no affirmative duty on bystanders to help or intervene in a crime. As long as you are not furthering a crime then you are not responsible for stopping it. Obviously, this is why these aren't being charged. I understand that the school has different standards but while it important to teach and educate kids about these issues we cannot expect them to have the decision making capabilities of an adult. Would every kid out there know that this video is tantamount to bullying? These kids don't view the victim as a minor but rather a peer - they are not viewing from the same perspective that we, as adults, view it. Should those that are guilty of creating and forwarding this video be punished? Absolutely! But those that did not forward it or view it? I don't think so. There has to be some intent - some "mens rea" if you will. Adults turn a blind eye to stuff everyday (not saying it is right) so why are we expecting more from kids and potentially ruining the futures of kids for not reporting something they may not even realize they were responsible for reporting.
This. Kids who opened something and quickly saw that it was pornographic and shut it may not even have known that the people in in were their classmates. And there is no obligation imposed by law for them to report to the school.
Lots of misstatements of the law on this thread.Everyone--even 14 year old public school students--has constitutional rights, and the school need not be the final word. Too much that we don't know--BUT, it's not open and shut that the kids that this was foisted on have no rights.
Also, was it a rape situation? Even if it had been "consensual," we know that because of the age of the girl, she is nonetheless a victim and not held to her "consent." Why don't we realize that kids who had this foisted on them ought not be held standards that, due to the doctrine of compelled speech, may not even be constitutional?
Message edited 11/12/2015 1:50:37 PM.
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| Posted 11/12/15 1:43 PM |
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Pumpkin1
LIF Adult
Member since 12/05 3715 total posts
Name:
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Re: Kings Park Sexting Scandal - High School
Posted by seaside
Posted by Jugglemom
Posted by KarenK122
Posted by seaside
Posted by PitterPatter11
Posted by seaside
Watching it and passing it along are punishable. But receiving and deleting?
If she was too young to give consent, how were kids who were never told about any duty to report old enough to intuit that they had one?
Unless they were told?
I would assume they've been told. School districts have been required to provide DASA training to students and staff for the last 4-5 years. Literally every single year, my school goes over the implications of bullying and sexting. Sexting between teens is technically legal although reflects poor judgment, but forwarding the sext is illegal.
I'd be interested to know the answer. And then what about kids who deleted it without opening it? Or who didn't know what it was, but deleted it when it got weird? Under this rule, someone could frame someone they hated or barely knew just by sending them the text. Plus, I am not sure that by virtue of having a phone, the kids could be compelled to speak or be punished. It sounds like a constitutional violation.
If someone opened it and turned off or just deleted it because they were uncomfortable should have opened their mouths and told someone. That is the problem. By doing nothing they are just has guilty as those that watched it. As far as the schools, they need to do training with their students and I hope because of this they have to do more but regardless of what the school teaches and doesn't teach, it is up to the parents to make sure your children know the laws. Any parent that gives their child a phone/internet access/texting and does not have a conversation about appropriate and inappropriate behavior is shameful.
I wholeheartedly disagree that kids who didn't view it/deleted are just as guilty. The law places no affirmative duty on bystanders to help or intervene in a crime. As long as you are not furthering a crime then you are not responsible for stopping it. Obviously, this is why these aren't being charged. I understand that the school has different standards but while it important to teach and educate kids about these issues we cannot expect them to have the decision making capabilities of an adult. Would every kid out there know that this video is tantamount to bullying? These kids don't view the victim as a minor but rather a peer - they are not viewing from the same perspective that we, as adults, view it. Should those that are guilty of creating and forwarding this video be punished? Absolutely! But those that did not forward it or view it? I don't think so. There has to be some intent - some "mens rea" if you will. Adults turn a blind eye to stuff everyday (not saying it is right) so why are we expecting more from kids and potentially ruining the futures of kids for not reporting something they may not even realize they were responsible for reporting.
This. Kids who opened something and quickly saw that it was pornographic and shut it may not even have known that the people in in were their classmates. And there is no obligation imposed by law for them to report to the school.
That is correct and that is why they were not arrested. However, by violating the Code of Conduct, they were suspended for not reporting.
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| Posted 11/12/15 1:50 PM |
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seaside
LIF Adult
Member since 6/08 3101 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Kings Park Sexting Scandal - High School
Posted by Pumpkin1
Posted by seaside
Posted by Jugglemom
Posted by KarenK122
Posted by seaside
Posted by PitterPatter11
Posted by seaside
Watching it and passing it along are punishable. But receiving and deleting?
If she was too young to give consent, how were kids who were never told about any duty to report old enough to intuit that they had one?
Unless they were told?
I would assume they've been told. School districts have been required to provide DASA training to students and staff for the last 4-5 years. Literally every single year, my school goes over the implications of bullying and sexting. Sexting between teens is technically legal although reflects poor judgment, but forwarding the sext is illegal.
I'd be interested to know the answer. And then what about kids who deleted it without opening it? Or who didn't know what it was, but deleted it when it got weird? Under this rule, someone could frame someone they hated or barely knew just by sending them the text. Plus, I am not sure that by virtue of having a phone, the kids could be compelled to speak or be punished. It sounds like a constitutional violation.
If someone opened it and turned off or just deleted it because they were uncomfortable should have opened their mouths and told someone. That is the problem. By doing nothing they are just has guilty as those that watched it. As far as the schools, they need to do training with their students and I hope because of this they have to do more but regardless of what the school teaches and doesn't teach, it is up to the parents to make sure your children know the laws. Any parent that gives their child a phone/internet access/texting and does not have a conversation about appropriate and inappropriate behavior is shameful.
I wholeheartedly disagree that kids who didn't view it/deleted are just as guilty. The law places no affirmative duty on bystanders to help or intervene in a crime. As long as you are not furthering a crime then you are not responsible for stopping it. Obviously, this is why these aren't being charged. I understand that the school has different standards but while it important to teach and educate kids about these issues we cannot expect them to have the decision making capabilities of an adult. Would every kid out there know that this video is tantamount to bullying? These kids don't view the victim as a minor but rather a peer - they are not viewing from the same perspective that we, as adults, view it. Should those that are guilty of creating and forwarding this video be punished? Absolutely! But those that did not forward it or view it? I don't think so. There has to be some intent - some "mens rea" if you will. Adults turn a blind eye to stuff everyday (not saying it is right) so why are we expecting more from kids and potentially ruining the futures of kids for not reporting something they may not even realize they were responsible for reporting.
This. Kids who opened something and quickly saw that it was pornographic and shut it may not even have known that the people in in were their classmates. And there is no obligation imposed by law for them to report to the school.
That is correct and that is why they were not arrested. However, by violating the Code of Conduct, they were suspended for not reporting.
But the Code of Conduct is susceptible to being challenged in Court. What if it said that kids who didn't participate in group prayers at assembly could be suspended? That's my whole point. Having an aspirational code is one thing. But having a code that compels speech may not pass constitutional muster. Plus, if it's drafted to apply to kids who knowingly refrain from reporting sexting, and the school can't prove that kids viewed or knew the contents, that's a problem with the application of the code. Too much we don't know, but lots to challenge. With a public school, the school is not the last word.
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| Posted 11/12/15 1:56 PM |
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2girlsforme
LIF Adult
Member since 8/06 3071 total posts
Name:
XXXXXXXXX
|
Re: Kings Park Sexting Scandal - High School
Posted by seaside
Posted by Pumpkin1
Posted by seaside
Posted by Jugglemom
Posted by KarenK122
Posted by seaside
Posted by PitterPatter11
Posted by seaside
Watching it and passing it along are punishable. But receiving and deleting?
If she was too young to give consent, how were kids who were never told about any duty to report old enough to intuit that they had one?
Unless they were told?
I would assume they've been told. School districts have been required to provide DASA training to students and staff for the last 4-5 years. Literally every single year, my school goes over the implications of bullying and sexting. Sexting between teens is technically legal although reflects poor judgment, but forwarding the sext is illegal.
I'd be interested to know the answer. And then what about kids who deleted it without opening it? Or who didn't know what it was, but deleted it when it got weird? Under this rule, someone could frame someone they hated or barely knew just by sending them the text. Plus, I am not sure that by virtue of having a phone, the kids could be compelled to speak or be punished. It sounds like a constitutional violation.
If someone opened it and turned off or just deleted it because they were uncomfortable should have opened their mouths and told someone. That is the problem. By doing nothing they are just has guilty as those that watched it. As far as the schools, they need to do training with their students and I hope because of this they have to do more but regardless of what the school teaches and doesn't teach, it is up to the parents to make sure your children know the laws. Any parent that gives their child a phone/internet access/texting and does not have a conversation about appropriate and inappropriate behavior is shameful.
I wholeheartedly disagree that kids who didn't view it/deleted are just as guilty. The law places no affirmative duty on bystanders to help or intervene in a crime. As long as you are not furthering a crime then you are not responsible for stopping it. Obviously, this is why these aren't being charged. I understand that the school has different standards but while it important to teach and educate kids about these issues we cannot expect them to have the decision making capabilities of an adult. Would every kid out there know that this video is tantamount to bullying? These kids don't view the victim as a minor but rather a peer - they are not viewing from the same perspective that we, as adults, view it. Should those that are guilty of creating and forwarding this video be punished? Absolutely! But those that did not forward it or view it? I don't think so. There has to be some intent - some "mens rea" if you will. Adults turn a blind eye to stuff everyday (not saying it is right) so why are we expecting more from kids and potentially ruining the futures of kids for not reporting something they may not even realize they were responsible for reporting.
This. Kids who opened something and quickly saw that it was pornographic and shut it may not even have known that the people in in were their classmates. And there is no obligation imposed by law for them to report to the school.
That is correct and that is why they were not arrested. However, by violating the Code of Conduct, they were suspended for not reporting.
But the Code of Conduct is susceptible to being challenged in Court. What if it said that kids who didn't participate in group prayers at assembly could be suspended? That's my whole point. Having an aspirational code is one thing. But having a code that compels speech may not pass constitutional muster. Plus, if it's drafted to apply to kids who knowingly refrain from reporting sexting, and the school can't prove that kids viewed or knew the contents, that's a problem with the application of the code. Too much we don't know, but lots to challenge. With a public school, the school is not the last word.
As a lawyer, I don't disagree with you at all. As a parent in one of the districts involved, I have a different take. What was going on was fairly open and notorious and the school acted because they feared not acting.
The issue for me is that this has been going on for the past few years in districts all over the country and now maybe schools will clearly articulate a policy. If my child were suspended, I would very likely request a meeting with the Superintendent, Board and principal as well as the other involved parents and seek to work out a compromise to expunge the suspensions. IMO, I believe that this will in fact happen as I do believe there were inequities in the way this was handled. However, what do you do as a district, if you have provided notice to the parents (via robo calls telling them to check phones and social media) and the video is continuing to be screened in the hallways and lunch room? Given the time line, I have to believe that the district acted on the advice of counsel. Will there be a lawsuit, maybe. But, given the Dignity Act, what is a reasonable compromise, that parents attend meetings on this topic and sign off on the code of conduct? I really am not sure.
Message edited 11/12/2015 2:22:20 PM.
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| Posted 11/12/15 2:21 PM |
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Jugglemom
LIF Adolescent
Member since 3/12 809 total posts
Name:
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Re: Kings Park Sexting Scandal - High School
Just to play devil's advocate this is almost a question if where does school begin and end? If the student received the text while at home on personal property and deleted at home and the victim was not a student at that school how does the school code of conduct apply? I don't know all the facts and this is purely hypothetical but I don't see how the reach of the school can extend in that situation.
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| Posted 11/12/15 2:22 PM |
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2girlsforme
LIF Adult
Member since 8/06 3071 total posts
Name:
XXXXXXXXX
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Re: Kings Park Sexting Scandal - High School
Posted by Jugglemom
Just to play devil's advocate this is almost a question if where does school begin and end? If the student received the text while at home on personal property and deleted at home and the victim was not a student at that school how does the school code of conduct apply? I don't know all the facts and this is purely hypothetical but I don't see how the reach of the school can extend in that situation.
I can tell you, from personal experience, that in the case you posit, the district's position would be not to get involved. I have a daughter who is a freshman in college and a 7th grader, and over the years, this very issue has come up more times than you might imagine. Last spring, there was press coverage regarding inappropriate pictures posted to a website involving students from over 20 Suffolk county districts. To my knowledge, no district got involved, nor did the police, or district attorney's office. I know this for a fact because I called them, as did other parents in the district and was advised that as far as they knew it wasn't being viewed on school grounds.
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| Posted 11/12/15 2:29 PM |
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seaside
LIF Adult
Member since 6/08 3101 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Kings Park Sexting Scandal - High School
Posted by 2girlsforme
Posted by seaside
Posted by Pumpkin1
Posted by seaside
Posted by Jugglemom
Posted by KarenK122
Posted by seaside
Posted by PitterPatter11
Posted by seaside
Watching it and passing it along are punishable. But receiving and deleting?
If she was too young to give consent, how were kids who were never told about any duty to report old enough to intuit that they had one?
Unless they were told?
I would assume they've been told. School districts have been required to provide DASA training to students and staff for the last 4-5 years. Literally every single year, my school goes over the implications of bullying and sexting. Sexting between teens is technically legal although reflects poor judgment, but forwarding the sext is illegal.
I'd be interested to know the answer. And then what about kids who deleted it without opening it? Or who didn't know what it was, but deleted it when it got weird? Under this rule, someone could frame someone they hated or barely knew just by sending them the text. Plus, I am not sure that by virtue of having a phone, the kids could be compelled to speak or be punished. It sounds like a constitutional violation.
If someone opened it and turned off or just deleted it because they were uncomfortable should have opened their mouths and told someone. That is the problem. By doing nothing they are just has guilty as those that watched it. As far as the schools, they need to do training with their students and I hope because of this they have to do more but regardless of what the school teaches and doesn't teach, it is up to the parents to make sure your children know the laws. Any parent that gives their child a phone/internet access/texting and does not have a conversation about appropriate and inappropriate behavior is shameful.
I wholeheartedly disagree that kids who didn't view it/deleted are just as guilty. The law places no affirmative duty on bystanders to help or intervene in a crime. As long as you are not furthering a crime then you are not responsible for stopping it. Obviously, this is why these aren't being charged. I understand that the school has different standards but while it important to teach and educate kids about these issues we cannot expect them to have the decision making capabilities of an adult. Would every kid out there know that this video is tantamount to bullying? These kids don't view the victim as a minor but rather a peer - they are not viewing from the same perspective that we, as adults, view it. Should those that are guilty of creating and forwarding this video be punished? Absolutely! But those that did not forward it or view it? I don't think so. There has to be some intent - some "mens rea" if you will. Adults turn a blind eye to stuff everyday (not saying it is right) so why are we expecting more from kids and potentially ruining the futures of kids for not reporting something they may not even realize they were responsible for reporting.
This. Kids who opened something and quickly saw that it was pornographic and shut it may not even have known that the people in in were their classmates. And there is no obligation imposed by law for them to report to the school.
That is correct and that is why they were not arrested. However, by violating the Code of Conduct, they were suspended for not reporting.
But the Code of Conduct is susceptible to being challenged in Court. What if it said that kids who didn't participate in group prayers at assembly could be suspended? That's my whole point. Having an aspirational code is one thing. But having a code that compels speech may not pass constitutional muster. Plus, if it's drafted to apply to kids who knowingly refrain from reporting sexting, and the school can't prove that kids viewed or knew the contents, that's a problem with the application of the code. Too much we don't know, but lots to challenge. With a public school, the school is not the last word.
As a lawyer, I don't disagree with you at all. As a parent in one of the districts involved, I have a different take. What was going on was fairly open and notorious and the school acted because they feared not acting.
The issue for me is that this has been going on for the past few years in districts all over the country and now maybe schools will clearly articulate a policy. If my child were suspended, I would very likely request a meeting with the Superintendent, Board and principal as well as the other involved parents and seek to work out a compromise to expunge the suspensions. IMO, I believe that this will in fact happen as I do believe there were inequities in the way this was handled. However, what do you do as a district, if you have provided notice to the parents (via robo calls telling them to check phones and social media) and the video is continuing to be screened in the hallways and lunch room? Given the time line, I have to believe that the district acted on the advice of counsel. Will there be a lawsuit, maybe. But, given the Dignity Act, what is a reasonable compromise, that parents attend meetings on this topic and sign off on the code of conduct? I really am not sure.
I hear you. On everything.
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| Posted 11/12/15 5:31 PM |
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| Pages: 1 2 3 [4] |
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