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SummerMom
Now a mom of 2!
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Sellers won't budge
...on the underground oil tank issue. We're paying full listing price for the house, and they won't abandon the oil tank and replace it for $2000. I told my lawyer I was willing to pay for half that, as long as the abandonment is done in their name while they still own the house.
If they still refuse... I don't know what I'll do. The fact that they won't spend $1000 to get full listing price for their house makes me REALLY nervous about what they think they're going to find down there. And that's something I don't want to be responsible for when I own the house. 
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Posted 11/20/09 11:36 AM  |
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ave1024
I Took The Wrong Road
Member since 12/07 6153 total posts
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Re: Sellers won't budge
Let me give you my take on this.
If the tank is working fine, I don't see why they would do this.
You are asking them to not only abandon it and bear part of the cost, but you are also asking them to take on the responsibility and burden of doing it.
You may get further if you try to ask for money and say you will do it yourself. There are plenty of houses out there with working underground oil tanks.
I don't think this is a priority to have taken care of. I would consider this more of an "upgrade" than a necessity.
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| Posted 11/20/09 11:40 AM |
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neener1211
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Member since 4/07 22952 total posts
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J
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Re: Sellers won't budge
I know you really love this house, but everything they do, in my opinion just shows how frustrating it is going to be moving forward working with them.
I commend you for being so calm and rational, I would have told them off by now, they are being ridiculous.
eta...I didn't realize the tank is still in working condition. My mom has one in the ground for over 30 years with no problem. If this is the case, I agree with the PP. If not, and it is just in the ground, it would bother me.
Message edited 11/20/2009 11:41:30 AM.
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| Posted 11/20/09 11:40 AM |
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ave1024
I Took The Wrong Road
Member since 12/07 6153 total posts
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That Led To The Wrong Tendencies
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Re: Sellers won't budge
Also they also probably feel if they got listing price from you, they can also get it from someone else.
You have shown that you "really" want this house. So they are standing their ground and using this to their advantage.
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| Posted 11/20/09 11:40 AM |
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Mrs-D-Girl
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Re: Sellers won't budge
Honestly, I don't know many sellers that would take that responsibility. There are so many homes that still have Underground tanks and unless the town says that you must do it, most will leave it there. I know when I bought my home in Oct 07, we had and underground tank. I since then converted the house to Gas and when I was going though the process, I called the town to see if I had to have the tank dug up or I could just have it filled and they said that the Town of Huntington is not making it a law until sometime in 2010.
Even when I bought the house, it is very rare that someone will tell you to hire a company and start digging the dirt and do environmental testing.
I would not worry about it if you really want the home. As long as they did not have any problems in the past (You could ask some neighbors as well if they noticed anything in past years being done).
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| Posted 11/20/09 11:47 AM |
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CityBaby
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Re: Sellers won't budge
Posted by ave1024
Let me give you my take on this.
If the tank is working fine, I don't see why they would do this.
You are asking them to not only abandon it and bear part of the cost, but you are also asking them to take on the responsibility and burden of doing it.
You may get further if you try to ask for money and say you will do it yourself. There are plenty of houses out there with working underground oil tanks.
I don't think this is a priority to have taken care of. I would consider this more of an "upgrade" than a necessity.
Have to say, I agree with this. I was all about getting our sellers to take responsibility for things but I don't know that you have much of a fight if it's working. Good luck!
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| Posted 11/20/09 12:33 PM |
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SummerMom
Now a mom of 2!
Member since 6/07 4970 total posts
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Re: Sellers won't budge
Thanks for talking me down on this. I was really upset a few hours ago.
I lurk on another Long Island Home web site, and everyone there says that this is a dealbreaker and that I should run, not walk away from this house. The oil tank, as far as I know is as old as the boiler: 58 years. Abandoning it would cost them a $1000 when I'm already paying over listing price, so what's $1000? It really makes me feel like they're worried about what's under there, and that's not something I want to take on.
And I'm getting mixed messages about getting homeowner's insurance with an underground tank. Some people are telling me that it's near-impossible and others are telling me that it just costs more.
My attorney just got back to me that their attorney is busy all day and will talk to the homeowners on Monday. I hate having to stress about this all weekend.
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| Posted 11/20/09 12:58 PM |
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mtnmama
Member since 5/06 4794 total posts
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Re: Sellers won't budge
We bought a house with an underground tank. I don't see the issue as a be all end all. We had absolutely no problem getting homeowners insurance (State Farm) and everything was fine with the tank during inspection.
We converted to gas last month and had it abandoned. We would not have let that one issue keep us from a house that we love. But if you feel that strongly about it, there will be other houses. Good luck!
Message edited 11/20/2009 2:16:41 PM.
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| Posted 11/20/09 1:47 PM |
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JBmommy
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Re: Sellers won't budge
I dont think it should be a deal breaker. When we bought our house, WE paid to test the tank, I think it was $600-$700. The test came back ok so we moved forward. We will probably abandon it ourselves in a few years.
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| Posted 11/20/09 1:52 PM |
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ave1024
I Took The Wrong Road
Member since 12/07 6153 total posts
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That Led To The Wrong Tendencies
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Re: Sellers won't budge
Posted by DavaDay
Abandoning it would cost them a $1000 when I'm already paying over listing price, so what's $1000? It really makes me feel like they're worried about what's under there, and that's not something I want to take on.
Or like I said the sellers don't want to be bothered going through the trouble of getting the work done. I really think that is the issue here. You are expecting them to get the work done. Think about it, what if they try to do the work and something gets messed up. Maybe it won't even be related to the condition of the tank. Maybe the contractors mess up. They lose the sale and they are screwed.
I would NEVER agree to do this as a seller unless my house was sitting on the market for 6 months and this was my only offer.
Why don't you just abandon it yourself ? Not everybody is out there trying to hide something.
You may not think $1000 is a lot but it's nothing cheap either. $1000 could be new appliances in their new place. That could be the cost of their attorney. If they only have 10k in equity that's 10% of their profit.
Ya know what mean?
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| Posted 11/20/09 1:54 PM |
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charon54
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Rebecca
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Re: Sellers won't budge
If you like the house that much, are you williing to lose it over $1000?
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| Posted 11/20/09 2:00 PM |
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Re: Sellers won't budge
Posted by DavaDay
And I'm getting mixed messages about getting homeowner's insurance with an underground tank. Some people are telling me that it's near-impossible and others are telling me that it just costs more.
Just FYI, when we bought our house our inc. co (Liberty Mutual) said if the property had an underground oil tank they would not insure us. It didn't so we were OK, but that was their rule.
GL!!
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| Posted 11/20/09 2:02 PM |
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SummerMom
Now a mom of 2!
Member since 6/07 4970 total posts
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Re: Sellers won't budge
Posted by charon54
If you like the house that much, are you williing to lose it over $1000?
It's not just the $1000 (would be $2000 if we pay the whole thing). With an underground oil tank, we will not get homeowner's insurance from most companies, so we'll have to find one willing to insure us at a much higher rate. And if, during the process of the abandonment, it is found that there has ever been a leakage, it has to be immediately reported to the EPA and they have to come in and do an environmental cleanup for tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. As slight as the risk is, I don't want that on my head, and neither do the current sellers, which is why we're at the impasse.
Abandonment of the tank does not disrupt any piece of their property. They siphon out the oil from the tank using the same hose they'd deliver it in. Then, they fill it with foam. The lawn is not disturbed and contractors don't need to be called. It's very common and very straightforward and not all that expensive. I just want it done before closing so I can qualify for homeowner's insurance and so I know what I'm getting into when I take ownership of the house.
I can't imagine that they'd find another buyer willing to pay over listing - we were stupid and didn't ask the right questions before we made our offer. We love the house and are willing to suck up the cost of replacing the 58 year old boiler, but with this now, it's just too much. We're already paying more than it will appraise for - we knew this, but did it anyway to undercut the competition. We can't afford to pay any more.
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| Posted 11/20/09 3:48 PM |
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Mrs-D-Girl
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Re: Sellers won't budge
Posted by DavaDay
Posted by charon54
If you like the house that much, are you williing to lose it over $1000?
It's not just the $1000 (would be $2000 if we pay the whole thing). With an underground oil tank, we will not get homeowner's insurance from most companies, so we'll have to find one willing to insure us at a much higher rate. And if, during the process of the abandonment, it is found that there has ever been a leakage, it has to be immediately reported to the EPA and they have to come in and do an environmental cleanup for tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. As slight as the risk is, I don't want that on my head, and neither do the current sellers, which is why we're at the impasse.
Abandonment of the tank does not disrupt any piece of their property. They siphon out the oil from the tank using the same hose they'd deliver it in. Then, they fill it with foam. The lawn is not disturbed and contractors don't need to be called. It's very common and very straightforward and not all that expensive. I just want it done before closing so I can qualify for homeowner's insurance and so I know what I'm getting into when I take ownership of the house.
I can't imagine that they'd find another buyer willing to pay over listing - we were stupid and didn't ask the right questions before we made our offer. We love the house and are willing to suck up the cost of replacing the 58 year old boiler, but with this now, it's just too much. We're already paying more than it will appraise for - we knew this, but did it anyway to undercut the competition. We can't afford to pay any more.
Just an FYI, if you don't plan on taking the tank our of the ground completely and just filling it then you will never know if there was a leak or not anyway. This is what you can do to maybe put your mind at ease, get an idea on how big the tank is and how much oil the seller goes through each season, if it's not insane then obviously there is nothing major going on underground and the tank is fine. Unless you plan on having the tank removed and the soil tested, I honestly would not worry about it. I know it sounds so much worse and I am sure there are some cases where a horror story or 2 has come up, but think of all the homes on LI that has underground tanks and yeah maybe in the recent couple of years people have converted to gas, took them out, etc.. this is very common.
As far as an Insurance Company, I can almost guarantee you will find Insurance. Yes you might not get the top rates out there and might get declined by a few carriers, but you will find it and it wont be that much different in your premium.
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| Posted 11/20/09 3:55 PM |
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SummerMom
Now a mom of 2!
Member since 6/07 4970 total posts
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Re: Sellers won't budge
Thank you for the reassurance.
How do I get ahold of the sellers to ask them about how much oil they use? Do I use our lawyers?
Oh, and the boiler is from 1951. Really. So they must use a RIDICULOUS amount of oil to heat their house, due to its inefficiency. So... what kind of numbers am I looking for?
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| Posted 11/20/09 4:01 PM |
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Mrs-D-Girl
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Re: Sellers won't budge
Posted by DavaDay
Thank you for the reassurance.
How do I get ahold of the sellers to ask them about how much oil they use? Do I use our lawyers?
Oh, and the boiler is from 1951. Really. So they must use a RIDICULOUS amount of oil to heat their house, due to its inefficiency. So... what kind of numbers am I looking for?
Maybe ask your Lawyer if they can get a copy of the past few years heating bills so you can get an idea of how much oil the house goes through in a season and you can say that you are thinking of converting to Gas, but not sure if you want to do it now or later down the road. Ask your Lawyer if she thinks this is a good idea, I mean since you did bring up the Oil Tank issue to them already, they should be able to supply you with something or at least an idea to put your mind at ease.
My house was built in the late 50's as well and prob had the original boiler, etc.. when we bought, the inspector told us it might last a year it may last another 5, but we decided to convert to gas after a year of being in the house and now my heating bills are cut in half.
Just think about it, when you do get the tank filled all they do is cut a hole in the top of the tank and suck out the left over oil and then fill it with foam or sand. They don't get into the dirt and look inside, test soil, etc... the plumber did mine in an hour.
Also, What Town is this? Maybe call the town and ask them as well that when and if you do decide to convert to gas, is it a law to get the tank removed or is it ok to just fill it? If they tell you it has to be removed, well then yes, grass, decking or whatever else will have to be ripped up.
Message edited 11/20/2009 4:19:21 PM.
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| Posted 11/20/09 4:17 PM |
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SummerMom
Now a mom of 2!
Member since 6/07 4970 total posts
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Re: Sellers won't budge
I just called the Nassau County Health Department. The tank was put in in 1989. Whew! I feel so much better about it now, knowing it's only 20 years old!
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| Posted 11/20/09 4:28 PM |
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rkoenke
my little piggys
Member since 3/08 4315 total posts
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rachel
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Re: Sellers won't budge
It can be looked at by the department of health to determine taht it is not leaking.
they should pay for that to be done.
my sellers have certification that when they abandoned the old tank that:
1- there was no leak
2- it was abandoned correctly
it's part of our closing docs.
i don't know how much this is, but it would behoove everyone involved to do this!
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| Posted 11/20/09 6:55 PM |
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rkoenke
my little piggys
Member since 3/08 4315 total posts
Name:
rachel
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Re: Sellers won't budge
Posted by DavaDay
Thanks for talking me down on this. I was really upset a few hours ago.
I lurk on another Long Island Home web site, and everyone there says that this is a dealbreaker and that I should run, not walk away from this house. The oil tank, as far as I know is as old as the boiler: 58 years. Abandoning it would cost them a $1000 when I'm already paying over listing price, so what's $1000? It really makes me feel like they're worried about what's under there, and that's not something I want to take on.
And I'm getting mixed messages about getting homeowner's insurance with an underground tank. Some people are telling me that it's near-impossible and others are telling me that it just costs more.
My attorney just got back to me that their attorney is busy all day and will talk to the homeowners on Monday. I hate having to stress about this all weekend.
my homeowners quote with an inground tank was 1013 for the entire year.. let me know if you need the person.
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| Posted 11/20/09 6:57 PM |
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rkoenke
my little piggys
Member since 3/08 4315 total posts
Name:
rachel
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Re: Sellers won't budge
Posted by DavaDay
I just called the Nassau County Health Department. The tank was put in in 1989. Whew! I feel so much better about it now, knowing it's only 20 years old!
YOU GO GIRL! taking control of the situation. you can get a certificate for it too so you know it wasn't leaking, as i wrote in my other post...
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| Posted 11/20/09 7:03 PM |
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TheDivineMrsM
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Mama mama mama....
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Re: Sellers won't budge
Posted by BaseballWidow
Posted by DavaDay
And I'm getting mixed messages about getting homeowner's insurance with an underground tank. Some people are telling me that it's near-impossible and others are telling me that it just costs more.
Just FYI, when we bought our house our inc. co (Liberty Mutual) said if the property had an underground oil tank they would not insure us. It didn't so we were OK, but that was their rule.
GL!!
State Farm insured us w/the underground tank. They don't have a problem with it, as there are many homes on LI that have this. We paid the same for home insurance as my bff in the same town with her tank in her basement.
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| Posted 11/20/09 7:52 PM |
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SummerMom
Now a mom of 2!
Member since 6/07 4970 total posts
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Re: Sellers won't budge
Rachel and Rachel, thank you for the insurance info! 
I'd love the contact information for the insurance person you used. I'm increasingly disappointed with all the people my RE Agent has been sending me to (mortgage broker, lawyer, inspector, etc.). Thanks!
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| Posted 11/21/09 12:29 AM |
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MommyofG
just the girls
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Janice
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Re: Sellers won't budge
I would pay the 600 and have the ground tested. let them know that see if they budge then. tell them you are going to get the EPA involved- you play hard ball too, sorry, they are lucky they got full asking price! and not to go half- real winners!!!!
I am waiting for my dad to get back from vegas to get info for you!
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| Posted 11/21/09 5:52 PM |
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Re: Sellers won't budge
Posted by DavaDay
Thank you for the reassurance.
How do I get ahold of the sellers to ask them about how much oil they use? Do I use our lawyers?
Oh, and the boiler is from 1951. Really. So they must use a RIDICULOUS amount of oil to heat their house, due to its inefficiency. So... what kind of numbers am I looking for?
We dont have an underground tank but our house has its original boiler(1950's) It runs at almost the same efficiency as a new one. We looked into updating but for a 4% difference it wasn't worth it.
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| Posted 11/22/09 7:01 AM |
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SummerMom
Now a mom of 2!
Member since 6/07 4970 total posts
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Re: Sellers won't budge
Posted by architectnycity
Posted by DavaDay
Thank you for the reassurance.
How do I get ahold of the sellers to ask them about how much oil they use? Do I use our lawyers?
Oh, and the boiler is from 1951. Really. So they must use a RIDICULOUS amount of oil to heat their house, due to its inefficiency. So... what kind of numbers am I looking for?
We dont have an underground tank but our house has its original boiler(1950's) It runs at almost the same efficiency as a new one. We looked into updating but for a 4% difference it wasn't worth it.
That's great to know. But how did you get to that number? We were thinking we'd have to change the boiler pretty immediately, but if the difference is that small it can wait a few winters... forgive me because I've only ever lived in apartments my whole life, but how do you test how efficient a boiler is as compared to a new one?
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| Posted 11/22/09 12:37 PM |
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