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NY mandates healthcare workers get the vaccine

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soontobemommyof2
My boys...my everything <3

Member since 4/15

3464 total posts

Name:

Re: NY mandates healthcare workers get the vaccine

Posted by MrsG823

Posted by Raging2020

Posted by chilltocam

Posted by windyweather21

Posted by chilltocam

There is room for limited religious and medical exceptions in the new mandate



That's great but what about the ones who just don't want it? They will lose many excellent nurses and doctors.

An option of testing should be on the table. Testing should also be for vaccinated also since they can also be sick. It should not be vaccinated or nothing. I actually sent this to my nurse friend who does not plan to get vaccinated but haven't heard back to see what her plans will be.



And there are many many more healthcare workers and patients who do not want to be in close proximity to those who are not vaccinated. What about them? Don't they have a right to a safe work environment? Don't patients have a right to healthcare providers who are much less likely to spread the virus to them? There are many more sides to this than just "many will quit" (or the similar, "many will not frequent a business that requires a vaccine") that you continue to insist is the only valid point of view. NY is not the only State to institute this mandate and I doubt it will be the last. More and more of the US population is getting vaccinated daily. Yes, the pace slowed considerably, but is rising quickly in states that are seeing rising rates of COVID. Eventually, those who refuse for no valid reason, will be left behind - unable to attend many events, restaurants and schools and yes, even their jobs.



But these same people are ok with being in close proximity to a healthcare worker who did not get the flu vaccine during a bad flu season?



Don’t worry many hospitals are also mandating flu shots- I had a choice last year to get a flu shot by 11/1 or find a new job- from what I have heard this year will be the same.



Technically healthcare facilities can’t force employees to get the flu shot, but they can wear a mask instead. People in the healthcare field have been protected by law against mandatory flu vaccines for quite some time.

Posted 8/17/21 3:21 PM
 
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soontobemommyof2
My boys...my everything <3

Member since 4/15

3464 total posts

Name:

Re: NY mandates healthcare workers get the vaccine

Posted by chilltocam

Posted by BFNY516

On the subject of religious exemptions, they can be hard to get. They are well aware that people will and are abusing it. Sometimes it includes a signature from a religious leader you’d have ties with, which all of the dishonorable people won’t have.



Exactly. It's much more than just filling out a form



By law, religious exemptions don’t need to get “approved” by anyone. Nobody should feel entitled to determine how “religious” someone is. Going every week to church is not a requisite for ur religious exemption to be “accepted”. If u’re atheist, then that’s a different story.

Posted 8/17/21 3:26 PM
 

MrsG823
Just call me Mommy.

Member since 1/11

5570 total posts

Name:
S

Re: NY mandates healthcare workers get the vaccine

Posted by soontobemommyof2

Posted by MrsG823

Posted by Raging2020

Posted by chilltocam

Posted by windyweather21

Posted by chilltocam

There is room for limited religious and medical exceptions in the new mandate



That's great but what about the ones who just don't want it? They will lose many excellent nurses and doctors.

An option of testing should be on the table. Testing should also be for vaccinated also since they can also be sick. It should not be vaccinated or nothing. I actually sent this to my nurse friend who does not plan to get vaccinated but haven't heard back to see what her plans will be.



And there are many many more healthcare workers and patients who do not want to be in close proximity to those who are not vaccinated. What about them? Don't they have a right to a safe work environment? Don't patients have a right to healthcare providers who are much less likely to spread the virus to them? There are many more sides to this than just "many will quit" (or the similar, "many will not frequent a business that requires a vaccine") that you continue to insist is the only valid point of view. NY is not the only State to institute this mandate and I doubt it will be the last. More and more of the US population is getting vaccinated daily. Yes, the pace slowed considerably, but is rising quickly in states that are seeing rising rates of COVID. Eventually, those who refuse for no valid reason, will be left behind - unable to attend many events, restaurants and schools and yes, even their jobs.



But these same people are ok with being in close proximity to a healthcare worker who did not get the flu vaccine during a bad flu season?



Don’t worry many hospitals are also mandating flu shots- I had a choice last year to get a flu shot by 11/1 or find a new job- from what I have heard this year will be the same.



Technically healthcare facilities can’t force employees to get the flu shot, but they can wear a mask instead. People in the healthcare field have been protected by law against mandatory flu vaccines for quite some time.



I work for VHA and we were mandated to get flu shots last fall. Wearing a mask was an option in past years but was not an option last fall.

Posted 8/17/21 4:41 PM
 

soontobemommyof2
My boys...my everything <3

Member since 4/15

3464 total posts

Name:

Re: NY mandates healthcare workers get the vaccine

Posted by MrsG823

Posted by soontobemommyof2

Posted by MrsG823

Posted by Raging2020

Posted by chilltocam

Posted by windyweather21

Posted by chilltocam

There is room for limited religious and medical exceptions in the new mandate



That's great but what about the ones who just don't want it? They will lose many excellent nurses and doctors.

An option of testing should be on the table. Testing should also be for vaccinated also since they can also be sick. It should not be vaccinated or nothing. I actually sent this to my nurse friend who does not plan to get vaccinated but haven't heard back to see what her plans will be.



And there are many many more healthcare workers and patients who do not want to be in close proximity to those who are not vaccinated. What about them? Don't they have a right to a safe work environment? Don't patients have a right to healthcare providers who are much less likely to spread the virus to them? There are many more sides to this than just "many will quit" (or the similar, "many will not frequent a business that requires a vaccine") that you continue to insist is the only valid point of view. NY is not the only State to institute this mandate and I doubt it will be the last. More and more of the US population is getting vaccinated daily. Yes, the pace slowed considerably, but is rising quickly in states that are seeing rising rates of COVID. Eventually, those who refuse for no valid reason, will be left behind - unable to attend many events, restaurants and schools and yes, even their jobs.



But these same people are ok with being in close proximity to a healthcare worker who did not get the flu vaccine during a bad flu season?



Don’t worry many hospitals are also mandating flu shots- I had a choice last year to get a flu shot by 11/1 or find a new job- from what I have heard this year will be the same.



Technically healthcare facilities can’t force employees to get the flu shot, but they can wear a mask instead. People in the healthcare field have been protected by law against mandatory flu vaccines for quite some time.



I work for VHA and we were mandated to get flu shots last fall. Wearing a mask was an option in past years but was not an option last fall.



It was an option that was shielded by law. It might depend on the place and ur place somehow was able to get away with it? I’m not sure what’s going on there but I can guarantee u the law that protects those in the medical field about not wanting to get the flu vaccine is still in place and has not been overturned.

Posted 8/17/21 4:56 PM
 

windyweather21
LIF Adult

Member since 3/21

5040 total posts

Name:

Re: NY mandates healthcare workers get the vaccine

Posted by soontobemommyof2

Posted by MrsG823

Posted by soontobemommyof2

Posted by MrsG823

Posted by Raging2020

Posted by chilltocam

Posted by windyweather21

Posted by chilltocam

There is room for limited religious and medical exceptions in the new mandate



That's great but what about the ones who just don't want it? They will lose many excellent nurses and doctors.

An option of testing should be on the table. Testing should also be for vaccinated also since they can also be sick. It should not be vaccinated or nothing. I actually sent this to my nurse friend who does not plan to get vaccinated but haven't heard back to see what her plans will be.



And there are many many more healthcare workers and patients who do not want to be in close proximity to those who are not vaccinated. What about them? Don't they have a right to a safe work environment? Don't patients have a right to healthcare providers who are much less likely to spread the virus to them? There are many more sides to this than just "many will quit" (or the similar, "many will not frequent a business that requires a vaccine") that you continue to insist is the only valid point of view. NY is not the only State to institute this mandate and I doubt it will be the last. More and more of the US population is getting vaccinated daily. Yes, the pace slowed considerably, but is rising quickly in states that are seeing rising rates of COVID. Eventually, those who refuse for no valid reason, will be left behind - unable to attend many events, restaurants and schools and yes, even their jobs.



But these same people are ok with being in close proximity to a healthcare worker who did not get the flu vaccine during a bad flu season?



Don’t worry many hospitals are also mandating flu shots- I had a choice last year to get a flu shot by 11/1 or find a new job- from what I have heard this year will be the same.



Technically healthcare facilities can’t force employees to get the flu shot, but they can wear a mask instead. People in the healthcare field have been protected by law against mandatory flu vaccines for quite some time.



I work for VHA and we were mandated to get flu shots last fall. Wearing a mask was an option in past years but was not an option last fall.



It was an option that was shielded by law. It might depend on the place and ur place somehow was able to get away with it? I’m not sure what’s going on there but I can guarantee u the law that protects those in the medical field about not wanting to get the flu vaccine is still in place and has not been overturned.



Chill might be able to contribute to this discussion.

Posted 8/17/21 5:15 PM
 

itsbabytime
LIF Adult

Member since 11/05

9594 total posts

Name:
Me

Re: NY mandates healthcare workers get the vaccine

Posted by MrsG823

Posted by itsbabytime

Posted by MrsG823

Posted by itsbabytime

Posted by MrsG823

Posted by BFNY516

Posted by MrsG823

Posted by Raging2020

Posted by chilltocam

Posted by windyweather21

Posted by chilltocam

There is room for limited religious and medical exceptions in the new mandate



That's great but what about the ones who just don't want it? They will lose many excellent nurses and doctors.

An option of testing should be on the table. Testing should also be for vaccinated also since they can also be sick. It should not be vaccinated or nothing. I actually sent this to my nurse friend who does not plan to get vaccinated but haven't heard back to see what her plans will be.



And there are many many more healthcare workers and patients who do not want to be in close proximity to those who are not vaccinated. What about them? Don't they have a right to a safe work environment? Don't patients have a right to healthcare providers who are much less likely to spread the virus to them? There are many more sides to this than just "many will quit" (or the similar, "many will not frequent a business that requires a vaccine") that you continue to insist is the only valid point of view. NY is not the only State to institute this mandate and I doubt it will be the last. More and more of the US population is getting vaccinated daily. Yes, the pace slowed considerably, but is rising quickly in states that are seeing rising rates of COVID. Eventually, those who refuse for no valid reason, will be left behind - unable to attend many events, restaurants and schools and yes, even their jobs.



But these same people are ok with being in close proximity to a healthcare worker who did not get the flu vaccine during a bad flu season?



Don’t worry many hospitals are also mandating flu shots- I had a choice last year to get a flu shot by 11/1 or find a new job- from what I have heard this year will be the same.



If you’re willing to share, how do you/your colleagues feel about this mandate for the covid vaccine?



On my team of 45 people all but one person willing chose to get vaccinated with in a month of being offered the first shot. The unvaccinated person caught Covid around the time the delta variant was first being discussed. She sobbed that she chose not to get vaccinated after being talked to by multiple people about the risks. We had an overall vaccination rate of nearly 80% of all staff before the mandate. The majority of my colleagues were eager to get vaccinated ASAP. I was initially a bit hesitant (back in December) but after a lot of reading and weighing the odds knowing I was being exposed daily I opted to get vaccinated the first week of January. I think getting the vaccine is another layer of protection against serious illness from Covid. Honestly, most of my colleagues are more worried about long term Covid effects than the initial illness. As physicians and scientists most of my coworkers have the “an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure mentality”. We are used to being required to have our vaccine titers up to date and getting flu shots and boosters for other vaccine if levels are determined to be low are part of the necessary employee health clearance. Medical and religious exceptions are given and a wavier must be signed. I am allergic to a particular “mandatory vaccine” and have a waiver.



Well If your “colleagues” are more worried about long term covid effects then initial illness then they should read the research on the studies that are being done, obviously they are just being started because the first vaccines weren’t given that long ago and no one really knew for sure what would be the impact but studies are coming out now that show even fully vaccinated (I believe it was Pfizer in the study) who had a mild or asymptomatic case of covid are getting long term covid issues - doesn’t seem the vaccine prevents long haul covid issues.



As physicians and scientists (some doing Covid research since March of 2020) we are all very well aware of the current peer reviewed work- FYI in some cases the mRNA vaccines seem to improve long haul Covid symptoms- as I said earlier the vaccine should be used in conjunction with other layers of prevention-like masks and good hand hygiene.



Yes, and so you know what I posted was accurate then, and as for your additional commentary, actually, in some cases ithe vaccine can make the long haul symptoms worse or actually re-ignite or exacerbate symptoms. But, since you seem to know it all and are the expert as a physician and scientist ... I’m sure I don’t need to tell you!



Wow!! No need to attack me. I was in no way minimizing what you said just adding to it. Apparently this is a contest on who is more correct- so much for discussion



I’m sorry, I actually really appreciate the discussion as this is an evolving, novel and very scary situation and I appreciate that there are two sides to the vaccine discussion and neither can honestly say they are 100 percent in the right. I’m sorry if you felt attacked but I hope you understand that just because you work in the medical/research field does not necessarily mean everything you say and your opinion is correct or better than anyone else’s. I think that arrogance about “science” is sometimes misplaced and highly biased by some individuals. I’m a highly educated, very researched person and my opinions are also based on facts and research. I think the best way to have a discussion that we can all learn and grow from is to be respectful and open minded. I’m sorry if I attacked you.

Posted 8/17/21 7:15 PM
 

Mushesgirl
Too blessed to be stressed

Member since 4/09

6511 total posts

Name:

Re: NY mandates healthcare workers get the vaccine

I am one of the healthcare workers who left the field. Not because of mandatory vaccines, but because of Covid itself. I was at the end of a 25 year career anyway, and was phasing myself out when the pandemic hit. I had co workers who were bringing the virus home to parents and grandparents and killing them. Can you imagine the guilt you'd have to live with? I can't. I love my patients dearly, and gave them my blood sweat and tears for 25 years, but I love my family more. I have now started a second career in an unrelated field making almost no money and I'm loving it. Unfortunately not everyone is in my position to do so.

I've read this entire thread and will add this: the vaccine is not FDA approved. I am fully vaccinated. My dentist suffered SEVERE, CAREER ENDING cardiac side effects from the Pfizer vaccine. So the FDA is weighing the adverse event data in order to make its decision. It's something for those who are waving the vaccine-is-a-panacea flag to consider.

I refused the flu shot for practically all of my career. I've had patients who got Guillain Barre syndrome after the flu shot, and I decided i'd rather get the flu than hospitalization and long term paralysis. And a few years ago NYS attempted to mandate the flu vaccine. Healthcare workers fought this and won; the compromise was that those unvaccinated had to mask up for their shift during flu season, which I gladly did. Had NYS mandated the flu shot for healthcare workers I was prepared to quit.

I took the COVID vaccines because this is a weaponized virus unlike anything ever encountered and I do have an underlying condition, as well as wanting to protect elderly loved ones I take care of.

That said, until the FDA approves the vaccine, I don't think employers should mandate this. What happens to a healthcare worker who develops serious complications from the vaccine who takes it because of a mandate on something not federally approved? Would you want to be the healthcare provider who experiences catastrophic side effects?


Posted 8/17/21 10:12 PM
 

itsbabytime
LIF Adult

Member since 11/05

9594 total posts

Name:
Me

Re: NY mandates healthcare workers get the vaccine

Posted by Mushesgirl

I am one of the healthcare workers who left the field. Not because of mandatory vaccines, but because of Covid itself. I was at the end of a 25 year career anyway, and was phasing myself out when the pandemic hit. I had co workers who were bringing the virus home to parents and grandparents and killing them. Can you imagine the guilt you'd have to live with? I can't. I love my patients dearly, and gave them my blood sweat and tears for 25 years, but I love my family more. I have now started a second career in an unrelated field making almost no money and I'm loving it. Unfortunately not everyone is in my position to do so.

I've read this entire thread and will add this: the vaccine is not FDA approved. I am fully vaccinated. My dentist suffered SEVERE, CAREER ENDING cardiac side effects from the Pfizer vaccine. So the FDA is weighing the adverse event data in order to make its decision. It's something for those who are waving the vaccine-is-a-panacea flag to consider.

I refused the flu shot for practically all of my career. I've had patients who got Guillain Barre syndrome after the flu shot, and I decided i'd rather get the flu than hospitalization and long term paralysis. And a few years ago NYS attempted to mandate the flu vaccine. Healthcare workers fought this and won; the compromise was that those unvaccinated had to mask up for their shift during flu season, which I gladly did. Had NYS mandated the flu shot for healthcare workers I was prepared to quit.

I took the COVID vaccines because this is a weaponized virus unlike anything ever encountered and I do have an underlying condition, as well as wanting to protect elderly loved ones I take care of.

That said, until the FDA approves the vaccine, I don't think employers should mandate this. What happens to a healthcare worker who develops serious complications from the vaccine who takes it because of a mandate on something not federally approved? Would you want to be the healthcare provider who experiences catastrophic side effects?





Thank you so much for posting this. All of it down to the GBS from flu shots. The dark side of Covid is being screamed from every roof top yet there is barely a peep about the dark side of these vaccines yet there are many suffering in silence, alone and being hushed even by their doctors. Once you or your family is touched by a severe vaccine reaction/injury, you will never look at the situation the same again.

I wish you all the best in your new career endeavour. It sounds like you were a really good healthcare provider too.

Posted 8/18/21 12:28 AM
 

windyweather21
LIF Adult

Member since 3/21

5040 total posts

Name:

Re: NY mandates healthcare workers get the vaccine

Posted by Mushesgirl

I am one of the healthcare workers who left the field. Not because of mandatory vaccines, but because of Covid itself. I was at the end of a 25 year career anyway, and was phasing myself out when the pandemic hit. I had co workers who were bringing the virus home to parents and grandparents and killing them. Can you imagine the guilt you'd have to live with? I can't. I love my patients dearly, and gave them my blood sweat and tears for 25 years, but I love my family more. I have now started a second career in an unrelated field making almost no money and I'm loving it. Unfortunately not everyone is in my position to do so.

I've read this entire thread and will add this: the vaccine is not FDA approved. I am fully vaccinated. My dentist suffered SEVERE, CAREER ENDING cardiac side effects from the Pfizer vaccine. So the FDA is weighing the adverse event data in order to make its decision. It's something for those who are waving the vaccine-is-a-panacea flag to consider.

I refused the flu shot for practically all of my career. I've had patients who got Guillain Barre syndrome after the flu shot, and I decided i'd rather get the flu than hospitalization and long term paralysis. And a few years ago NYS attempted to mandate the flu vaccine. Healthcare workers fought this and won; the compromise was that those unvaccinated had to mask up for their shift during flu season, which I gladly did. Had NYS mandated the flu shot for healthcare workers I was prepared to quit.

I took the COVID vaccines because this is a weaponized virus unlike anything ever encountered and I do have an underlying condition, as well as wanting to protect elderly loved ones I take care of.

That said, until the FDA approves the vaccine, I don't think employers should mandate this. What happens to a healthcare worker who develops serious complications from the vaccine who takes it because of a mandate on something not federally approved? Would you want to be the healthcare provider who experiences catastrophic side effects?





Thank you for sharing your experience. Unfortunately, won’t get much support here as this vaccine is the golden child to
many on here.
There is always another side and glad we can hear from first hand experience and not just all links and charts.

Posted 8/18/21 6:55 AM
 

MrsWoods
LIF Adult

Member since 4/12

1142 total posts

Name:

Re: NY mandates healthcare workers get the vaccine

Posted by Mushesgirl

I am one of the healthcare workers who left the field. Not because of mandatory vaccines, but because of Covid itself. I was at the end of a 25 year career anyway, and was phasing myself out when the pandemic hit. I had co workers who were bringing the virus home to parents and grandparents and killing them. Can you imagine the guilt you'd have to live with? I can't. I love my patients dearly, and gave them my blood sweat and tears for 25 years, but I love my family more. I have now started a second career in an unrelated field making almost no money and I'm loving it. Unfortunately not everyone is in my position to do so.

I've read this entire thread and will add this: the vaccine is not FDA approved. I am fully vaccinated. My dentist suffered SEVERE, CAREER ENDING cardiac side effects from the Pfizer vaccine. So the FDA is weighing the adverse event data in order to make its decision. It's something for those who are waving the vaccine-is-a-panacea flag to consider.

I refused the flu shot for practically all of my career. I've had patients who got Guillain Barre syndrome after the flu shot, and I decided i'd rather get the flu than hospitalization and long term paralysis. And a few years ago NYS attempted to mandate the flu vaccine. Healthcare workers fought this and won; the compromise was that those unvaccinated had to mask up for their shift during flu season, which I gladly did. Had NYS mandated the flu shot for healthcare workers I was prepared to quit.

I took the COVID vaccines because this is a weaponized virus unlike anything ever encountered and I do have an underlying condition, as well as wanting to protect elderly loved ones I take care of.

That said, until the FDA approves the vaccine, I don't think employers should mandate this. What happens to a healthcare worker who develops serious complications from the vaccine who takes it because of a mandate on something not federally approved? Would you want to be the healthcare provider who experiences catastrophic side effects?





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Posted 8/18/21 8:12 AM
 

soontobemommyof2
My boys...my everything <3

Member since 4/15

3464 total posts

Name:

Re: NY mandates healthcare workers get the vaccine

Posted by Mushesgirl

I am one of the healthcare workers who left the field. Not because of mandatory vaccines, but because of Covid itself. I was at the end of a 25 year career anyway, and was phasing myself out when the pandemic hit. I had co workers who were bringing the virus home to parents and grandparents and killing them. Can you imagine the guilt you'd have to live with? I can't. I love my patients dearly, and gave them my blood sweat and tears for 25 years, but I love my family more. I have now started a second career in an unrelated field making almost no money and I'm loving it. Unfortunately not everyone is in my position to do so.

I've read this entire thread and will add this: the vaccine is not FDA approved. I am fully vaccinated. My dentist suffered SEVERE, CAREER ENDING cardiac side effects from the Pfizer vaccine. So the FDA is weighing the adverse event data in order to make its decision. It's something for those who are waving the vaccine-is-a-panacea flag to consider.

I refused the flu shot for practically all of my career. I've had patients who got Guillain Barre syndrome after the flu shot, and I decided i'd rather get the flu than hospitalization and long term paralysis. And a few years ago NYS attempted to mandate the flu vaccine. Healthcare workers fought this and won; the compromise was that those unvaccinated had to mask up for their shift during flu season, which I gladly did. Had NYS mandated the flu shot for healthcare workers I was prepared to quit.

I took the COVID vaccines because this is a weaponized virus unlike anything ever encountered and I do have an underlying condition, as well as wanting to protect elderly loved ones I take care of.

That said, until the FDA approves the vaccine, I don't think employers should mandate this. What happens to a healthcare worker who develops serious complications from the vaccine who takes it because of a mandate on something not federally approved? Would you want to be the healthcare provider who experiences catastrophic side effects?




Thank u for being bold enough to post this on this board. Some friends in the medical field, from nurses to doctors, share the same thoughts.

Posted 8/18/21 10:32 AM
 

LastLightGlow
Mystic.

Member since 4/07

2663 total posts

Name:

Re: NY mandates healthcare workers get the vaccine

..

Message edited 1/9/2022 1:21:38 AM.

Posted 8/18/21 9:29 PM
 

Mushesgirl
Too blessed to be stressed

Member since 4/09

6511 total posts

Name:

Re: NY mandates healthcare workers get the vaccine

thank you for the kind replies ladies.

Lastlightglow: cardiomyopathy

Posted 8/19/21 8:53 PM
 

FirstMate
My lil cowboy

Member since 10/10

7461 total posts

Name:

Re: NY mandates healthcare workers get the vaccine

I have such a problem with this. I really do. I am vaccinated but this is not right. They worked through an entire pandemic without a vaccine and now they are being forced to take a non-FDA approved vaccine (that has leaped over every mandated protocol for drug and vax approval) in order to maintain their livelihood? That's just not fair. Nobody should be put in that position.

Give them a choice of vax or mask/gown up with weekly testing.





Posted 8/20/21 3:34 PM
 

windyweather21
LIF Adult

Member since 3/21

5040 total posts

Name:

Re: NY mandates healthcare workers get the vaccine

Posted by FirstMate

I have such a problem with this. I really do. I am vaccinated but this is not right. They worked through an entire pandemic without a vaccine and now they are being forced to take a non-FDA approved vaccine (that has leaped over every mandated protocol for drug and vax approval) in order to maintain their livelihood? That's just not fair. Nobody should be put in that position.

Give them a choice of vax or mask/gown up with weekly testing.









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Posted 8/20/21 6:21 PM
 

ali120206
2 Boys

Member since 7/06

17199 total posts

Name:

Re: NY mandates healthcare workers get the vaccine

Posted by windyweather21

Posted by FirstMate

I have such a problem with this. I really do. I am vaccinated but this is not right. They worked through an entire pandemic without a vaccine and now they are being forced to take a non-FDA approved vaccine (that has leaped over every mandated protocol for drug and vax approval) in order to maintain their livelihood? That's just not fair. Nobody should be put in that position.

Give them a choice of vax or mask/gown up with weekly testing.









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I agree.

Posted 8/20/21 6:23 PM
 
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