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MC09
arrrghhh!!!!
Member since 2/09 5674 total posts
Name:
Me speaks pirate!
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Re: I dare you to disagree with Malcolm X
On the subject of Trump and the media...
He can say what his base wants to hear but the fact is he LOVES the media. The media created him and put him where he is. And this is going back wayyyy before the existence of social media. Decades before. He's what you would call a media wh0re. He knows this and uses the media to his benefit.
Message edited 2/1/2021 4:02:29 PM.
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Posted 2/1/21 4:02 PM  |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9508 total posts
Name:
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Re: I dare you to disagree with Malcolm X
Posted by GoldenRod
Posted by lululu
... And above is YOUR opinion which I can respect but please don't say something with 100% certainty that you can not possibly back up with facts.
...
Posted by lululu
...
I have absolutely no respect for the media because they no longer present the facts. Everything has a spin on it and some things are just outright lies.
...
Could you point out the AP news articles that aren't fact, or are outright lies?
I can probably not point to an AP article with an outright lie but I can point to news articles from most mainstream news outlets that presented items as if they were facts, when they were actually not true at all. However, because these pertain to family members of mine I would not do it on a public site such as this. I do respect the AP. They are probably one source that you can consistently rely on. The AP was actually a client of mine way back in the day. They are true journalists who have respect for reporting the news.
ETA: Just wondering why you chose to only ask for an outright lie from the AP?
Message edited 2/1/2021 4:07:29 PM.
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| Posted 2/1/21 4:06 PM |
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MC09
arrrghhh!!!!
Member since 2/09 5674 total posts
Name:
Me speaks pirate!
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Re: I dare you to disagree with Malcolm X
Posted by lululu
Back to the original comment I don't really see how anyone can disagree. Look at the Central Park 5 and how that played out.
Didn't Trump have a hand in that media fiasco, ironically?
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| Posted 2/1/21 4:11 PM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: I dare you to disagree with Malcolm X
Posted by lululu
Posted by Hofstra26
lulu.......... Trump absolutely, 100% and without question turned this country on the free press. That's not even debatable. His actions are why we are in a position where people would sooner believe some conspiracy site before an article on MSNBC.
Quite honestly, the news media is FAR less a threat than social media. FB, Twitter, Parler, Instagram and every conspiracy driven social media site has made people idiots. Memes aren't facts, FB isn't gospel, Twitter is a joke and unless we set standards for those types of platforms, the dumbing down of this nation will continue. It's frightening how many people get their information EXCLUSIVELY from social media. Social media platforms make it entirely too easy to spread misinformation and lies to the masses. Social media is the biggest challenge we face nowadays. No doubt.
Okay - That is your opinion that Trump turned the country on the media. I believe many people had already believed that the media was completely biased and unreliable long before Trump. I get it, you hate Trump. Everyone knows you hate Trump but if you can not see that Trump took advantage of something that was already a MAJOR contention for a lot of American people then you are blind. And frankly you are giving him too much credit. I think that your hatred for him distorts your view of reality in certain cases. With Trump you see red and you can't see the underlying forces that were already in motion in this country that Trump exploited to his benefit. That is my opinion. And above is YOUR opinion which I can respect but please don't say something with 100% certainty that you can not possibly back up with facts.
And the fact that social media and things that people take at face value that they see on social media is a threat goes back to my point. The American people in general are a very unintelligent group.
Um, he called the press the enemy of the people.
No one is saying distrust didn't exist before but to deny he fanned these flames dangerously is absurd.
And your claim that her view of reality is distorted, she sees red, etc. does not comport with your claim that you respect her opinion.
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| Posted 2/1/21 4:15 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9508 total posts
Name:
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Re: I dare you to disagree with Malcolm X
Posted by MC09
Posted by lululu
Back to the original comment I don't really see how anyone can disagree. Look at the Central Park 5 and how that played out.
Didn't Trump have a hand in that media fiasco, ironically?
Ironically yes, he did! A very big hand in it.
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| Posted 2/1/21 4:15 PM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: I dare you to disagree with Malcolm X
Posted by lululu
And I just want to add that this is where the post derails and it turns into me being some type of gun toting Trump loving republican which is why I think that I need to get off this board again!
Other than the mildly incendiary title things were actually pretty chill until you condescended to Hofstra.
No one called you a gun toting Republican or whatever nonsense you said but it certainly seems like you are provoking that.
Also, this is not an airport and there is no need to announce your departure.
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| Posted 2/1/21 4:18 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9508 total posts
Name:
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Re: I dare you to disagree with Malcolm X
Posted by JennP
Posted by lululu
Posted by Hofstra26
lulu.......... Trump absolutely, 100% and without question turned this country on the free press. That's not even debatable. His actions are why we are in a position where people would sooner believe some conspiracy site before an article on MSNBC.
Quite honestly, the news media is FAR less a threat than social media. FB, Twitter, Parler, Instagram and every conspiracy driven social media site has made people idiots. Memes aren't facts, FB isn't gospel, Twitter is a joke and unless we set standards for those types of platforms, the dumbing down of this nation will continue. It's frightening how many people get their information EXCLUSIVELY from social media. Social media platforms make it entirely too easy to spread misinformation and lies to the masses. Social media is the biggest challenge we face nowadays. No doubt.
Okay - That is your opinion that Trump turned the country on the media. I believe many people had already believed that the media was completely biased and unreliable long before Trump. I get it, you hate Trump. Everyone knows you hate Trump but if you can not see that Trump took advantage of something that was already a MAJOR contention for a lot of American people then you are blind. And frankly you are giving him too much credit. I think that your hatred for him distorts your view of reality in certain cases. With Trump you see red and you can't see the underlying forces that were already in motion in this country that Trump exploited to his benefit. That is my opinion. And above is YOUR opinion which I can respect but please don't say something with 100% certainty that you can not possibly back up with facts.
And the fact that social media and things that people take at face value that they see on social media is a threat goes back to my point. The American people in general are a very unintelligent group.
Um, he called the press the enemy of the people.
No one is saying distrust didn't exist before but to deny he fanned these flames dangerously is absurd.
And your claim that her view of reality is distorted, she sees red, etc. does not comport with your claim that you respect her opinion.
How did I DENY that he fanned the flames? I specifically said "HE TOOK ADVANTAGE OF" and "TRUMP EXPLOITED." Please tell me specifically what I said that is dangerously absurd?
And you are probably right, I don't respect her opinion because I think her judgement is clouded by her hatred. So I will take that back. Hofstra I don't respect your opinion at all but I will agree to disagree on this one here.
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| Posted 2/1/21 4:19 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9508 total posts
Name:
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Re: I dare you to disagree with Malcolm X
Posted by JennP
Posted by lululu
And I just want to add that this is where the post derails and it turns into me being some type of gun toting Trump loving republican which is why I think that I need to get off this board again!
Other than the mildly incendiary title things were actually pretty chill until you condescended to Hofstra.
No one called you a gun toting Republican or whatever nonsense you said but it certainly seems like you are provoking that.
Also, this is not an airport and there is no need to announce your departure.
Jenn - If anyone is condescending on this site I would nominate you to hold the title of queen. Just stop.
I have been called things like that in the past on here because if you don't hate Trump the way you and Hofstra do things on here can get out of hand.
And there's really no need for you comment - I am pointing out why myself and many others don't post on here anymore.....
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| Posted 2/1/21 4:22 PM |
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MC09
arrrghhh!!!!
Member since 2/09 5674 total posts
Name:
Me speaks pirate!
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Re: I dare you to disagree with Malcolm X
Posted by JennP
Posted by lululu
Posted by Hofstra26
lulu.......... Trump absolutely, 100% and without question turned this country on the free press. That's not even debatable. His actions are why we are in a position where people would sooner believe some conspiracy site before an article on MSNBC.
Quite honestly, the news media is FAR less a threat than social media. FB, Twitter, Parler, Instagram and every conspiracy driven social media site has made people idiots. Memes aren't facts, FB isn't gospel, Twitter is a joke and unless we set standards for those types of platforms, the dumbing down of this nation will continue. It's frightening how many people get their information EXCLUSIVELY from social media. Social media platforms make it entirely too easy to spread misinformation and lies to the masses. Social media is the biggest challenge we face nowadays. No doubt.
Okay - That is your opinion that Trump turned the country on the media. I believe many people had already believed that the media was completely biased and unreliable long before Trump. I get it, you hate Trump. Everyone knows you hate Trump but if you can not see that Trump took advantage of something that was already a MAJOR contention for a lot of American people then you are blind. And frankly you are giving him too much credit. I think that your hatred for him distorts your view of reality in certain cases. With Trump you see red and you can't see the underlying forces that were already in motion in this country that Trump exploited to his benefit. That is my opinion. And above is YOUR opinion which I can respect but please don't say something with 100% certainty that you can not possibly back up with facts.
And the fact that social media and things that people take at face value that they see on social media is a threat goes back to my point. The American people in general are a very unintelligent group.
Um, he called the press the enemy of the people.
No one is saying distrust didn't exist before but to deny he fanned these flames dangerously is absurd.
And your claim that her view of reality is distorted, she sees red, etc. does not comport with your claim that you respect her opinion.
During the insurrection journalists were targeted. The mob destroyed their equipment. I believe that had something to do with Trump's words just like the insurrection itself was caused by his words.
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| Posted 2/1/21 4:23 PM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: I dare you to disagree with Malcolm X
Posted by lululu
Posted by JennP
Posted by lululu
Posted by Hofstra26
lulu.......... Trump absolutely, 100% and without question turned this country on the free press. That's not even debatable. His actions are why we are in a position where people would sooner believe some conspiracy site before an article on MSNBC.
Quite honestly, the news media is FAR less a threat than social media. FB, Twitter, Parler, Instagram and every conspiracy driven social media site has made people idiots. Memes aren't facts, FB isn't gospel, Twitter is a joke and unless we set standards for those types of platforms, the dumbing down of this nation will continue. It's frightening how many people get their information EXCLUSIVELY from social media. Social media platforms make it entirely too easy to spread misinformation and lies to the masses. Social media is the biggest challenge we face nowadays. No doubt.
Okay - That is your opinion that Trump turned the country on the media. I believe many people had already believed that the media was completely biased and unreliable long before Trump. I get it, you hate Trump. Everyone knows you hate Trump but if you can not see that Trump took advantage of something that was already a MAJOR contention for a lot of American people then you are blind. And frankly you are giving him too much credit. I think that your hatred for him distorts your view of reality in certain cases. With Trump you see red and you can't see the underlying forces that were already in motion in this country that Trump exploited to his benefit. That is my opinion. And above is YOUR opinion which I can respect but please don't say something with 100% certainty that you can not possibly back up with facts.
And the fact that social media and things that people take at face value that they see on social media is a threat goes back to my point. The American people in general are a very unintelligent group.
Um, he called the press the enemy of the people.
No one is saying distrust didn't exist before but to deny he fanned these flames dangerously is absurd.
And your claim that her view of reality is distorted, she sees red, etc. does not comport with your claim that you respect her opinion.
How did I DENY that he fanned the flames? I specifically said "HE TOOK ADVANTAGE OF" and "TRUMP EXPLOITED." Please tell me specifically what I said that is dangerously absurd?
And you are probably right, I don't respect her opinion because I think her judgement is clouded by her hatred. So I will take that back. Hofstra I don't respect your opinion at all but I will agree to disagree on this one here.
You are misquoting me. My point was that you understated the situation. What he did was downright dangerous.
You cannot claim that a large contingent of Americans are unintelligent AND claim that she is giving Trump too much credit.
The truth is that he has built a cult like following and environment and vilified the press and many gullible people have bought into that.
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| Posted 2/1/21 4:31 PM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: I dare you to disagree with Malcolm X
Posted by MC09
Posted by JennP
Posted by lululu
Posted by Hofstra26
lulu.......... Trump absolutely, 100% and without question turned this country on the free press. That's not even debatable. His actions are why we are in a position where people would sooner believe some conspiracy site before an article on MSNBC.
Quite honestly, the news media is FAR less a threat than social media. FB, Twitter, Parler, Instagram and every conspiracy driven social media site has made people idiots. Memes aren't facts, FB isn't gospel, Twitter is a joke and unless we set standards for those types of platforms, the dumbing down of this nation will continue. It's frightening how many people get their information EXCLUSIVELY from social media. Social media platforms make it entirely too easy to spread misinformation and lies to the masses. Social media is the biggest challenge we face nowadays. No doubt.
Okay - That is your opinion that Trump turned the country on the media. I believe many people had already believed that the media was completely biased and unreliable long before Trump. I get it, you hate Trump. Everyone knows you hate Trump but if you can not see that Trump took advantage of something that was already a MAJOR contention for a lot of American people then you are blind. And frankly you are giving him too much credit. I think that your hatred for him distorts your view of reality in certain cases. With Trump you see red and you can't see the underlying forces that were already in motion in this country that Trump exploited to his benefit. That is my opinion. And above is YOUR opinion which I can respect but please don't say something with 100% certainty that you can not possibly back up with facts.
And the fact that social media and things that people take at face value that they see on social media is a threat goes back to my point. The American people in general are a very unintelligent group.
Um, he called the press the enemy of the people.
No one is saying distrust didn't exist before but to deny he fanned these flames dangerously is absurd.
And your claim that her view of reality is distorted, she sees red, etc. does not comport with your claim that you respect her opinion.
During the insurrection journalists were targeted. The mob destroyed their equipment. I believe that had something to do with Trump's words just like the insurrection itself was caused by his words.
Yes.
I haven't had time to read it yet but there has been some recent reporting that Trump had a greater role in planning the 1/6 coup attempt than was originally thought.
I'll take a look later but it sounds like he literally took over planning the event.
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| Posted 2/1/21 4:34 PM |
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Hofstra26
Love to Bake!
Member since 7/06 27915 total posts
Name:
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Re: I dare you to disagree with Malcolm X
Posted by lululu
Posted by Hofstra26
lulu.......... Trump absolutely, 100% and without question turned this country on the free press. That's not even debatable. His actions are why we are in a position where people would sooner believe some conspiracy site before an article on MSNBC.
Quite honestly, the news media is FAR less a threat than social media. FB, Twitter, Parler, Instagram and every conspiracy driven social media site has made people idiots. Memes aren't facts, FB isn't gospel, Twitter is a joke and unless we set standards for those types of platforms, the dumbing down of this nation will continue. It's frightening how many people get their information EXCLUSIVELY from social media. Social media platforms make it entirely too easy to spread misinformation and lies to the masses. Social media is the biggest challenge we face nowadays. No doubt.
Okay - That is your opinion that Trump turned the country on the media. I believe many people had already believed that the media was completely biased and unreliable long before Trump. I get it, you hate Trump. Everyone knows you hate Trump but if you can not see that Trump took advantage of something that was already a MAJOR contention for a lot of American people then you are blind. And frankly you are giving him too much credit. I think that your hatred for him distorts your view of reality in certain cases. With Trump you see red and you can't see the underlying forces that were already in motion in this country that Trump exploited to his benefit. That is my opinion. And above is YOUR opinion which I can respect but please don't say something with 100% certainty that you can not possibly back up with facts.
And the fact that social media and things that people take at face value that they see on social media is a threat goes back to my point. The American people in general are a very unintelligent group.
I could continue to argue with you but I am getting so tired of wasting my time with those who choose to live in a world of alternate facts.
Claiming that Trump wasn't the driving force between the media hate and mistrust shows a level of willful ignorance that is getting old to listen to.
Enjoy your day.
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| Posted 2/1/21 4:36 PM |
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GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!
Member since 11/06 26792 total posts
Name:
Shawn
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Re: I dare you to disagree with Malcolm X
Posted by lululu
Posted by GoldenRod
Posted by lululu
... And above is YOUR opinion which I can respect but please don't say something with 100% certainty that you can not possibly back up with facts.
...
Posted by lululu
...
I have absolutely no respect for the media because they no longer present the facts. Everything has a spin on it and some things are just outright lies.
...
Could you point out the AP news articles that aren't fact, or are outright lies?
I can probably not point to an AP article with an outright lie but I can point to news articles from most mainstream news outlets that presented items as if they were facts, when they were actually not true at all. However, because these pertain to family members of mine I would not do it on a public site such as this. I do respect the AP. They are probably one source that you can consistently rely on. The AP was actually a client of mine way back in the day. They are true journalists who have respect for reporting the news.
ETA: Just wondering why you chose to only ask for an outright lie from the AP?
You said the media lies. I got a lot of my news from the AP. Just pointing out that a blanket statement of "the media lies" isn't true.
So you agree that the Free Press is necessary, and depending on which tool you use, the media is a good thing. AP is part of the media, and if people chose to get their news from there instead of entertainment/propaganda sites, the world would be a different place.
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| Posted 2/1/21 4:46 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9508 total posts
Name:
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Re: I dare you to disagree with Malcolm X
Posted by JennP
Posted by lululu
Posted by JennP
Posted by lululu
Posted by Hofstra26
lulu.......... Trump absolutely, 100% and without question turned this country on the free press. That's not even debatable. His actions are why we are in a position where people would sooner believe some conspiracy site before an article on MSNBC.
Quite honestly, the news media is FAR less a threat than social media. FB, Twitter, Parler, Instagram and every conspiracy driven social media site has made people idiots. Memes aren't facts, FB isn't gospel, Twitter is a joke and unless we set standards for those types of platforms, the dumbing down of this nation will continue. It's frightening how many people get their information EXCLUSIVELY from social media. Social media platforms make it entirely too easy to spread misinformation and lies to the masses. Social media is the biggest challenge we face nowadays. No doubt.
Okay - That is your opinion that Trump turned the country on the media. I believe many people had already believed that the media was completely biased and unreliable long before Trump. I get it, you hate Trump. Everyone knows you hate Trump but if you can not see that Trump took advantage of something that was already a MAJOR contention for a lot of American people then you are blind. And frankly you are giving him too much credit. I think that your hatred for him distorts your view of reality in certain cases. With Trump you see red and you can't see the underlying forces that were already in motion in this country that Trump exploited to his benefit. That is my opinion. And above is YOUR opinion which I can respect but please don't say something with 100% certainty that you can not possibly back up with facts.
And the fact that social media and things that people take at face value that they see on social media is a threat goes back to my point. The American people in general are a very unintelligent group.
Um, he called the press the enemy of the people.
No one is saying distrust didn't exist before but to deny he fanned these flames dangerously is absurd.
And your claim that her view of reality is distorted, she sees red, etc. does not comport with your claim that you respect her opinion.
How did I DENY that he fanned the flames? I specifically said "HE TOOK ADVANTAGE OF" and "TRUMP EXPLOITED." Please tell me specifically what I said that is dangerously absurd?
And you are probably right, I don't respect her opinion because I think her judgement is clouded by her hatred. So I will take that back. Hofstra I don't respect your opinion at all but I will agree to disagree on this one here.
You are misquoting me. My point was that you understated the situation. What he did was downright dangerous.
You cannot claim that a large contingent of Americans are unintelligent AND claim that she is giving Trump too much credit.
The truth is that he has built a cult like following and environment and vilified the press and many gullible people have bought into that.
I don't believe I misquoted you at all. You aren't saying that I understated a situation - you claimed I denied it, which I didn't. Quite the contrary.
And I do believe that Trump completely used the fact that Americans are stupid and easily influenced HOWEVER, I believe there was already a large undercurrent of media distrust prior to Trump coming along. If there wasn't I don't believe he would have been as successful as he was at bringing this distrust to a new level.
And I agree with you that he has built a cult like following of crazy red neck Americans. This goes back to my point of most Americans are stupid.
I just think that it's silly to say that the media doesn't play a huge part in public opinion and has the power to distort things if they choose to do so. That's going back to the original post to which Hofstra thinks is not completely true and that American's are smart enough to know the difference.
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| Posted 2/1/21 4:50 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9508 total posts
Name:
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Re: I dare you to disagree with Malcolm X
Posted by GoldenRod
Posted by lululu
Posted by GoldenRod
Posted by lululu
... And above is YOUR opinion which I can respect but please don't say something with 100% certainty that you can not possibly back up with facts.
...
Posted by lululu
...
I have absolutely no respect for the media because they no longer present the facts. Everything has a spin on it and some things are just outright lies.
...
Could you point out the AP news articles that aren't fact, or are outright lies?
I can probably not point to an AP article with an outright lie but I can point to news articles from most mainstream news outlets that presented items as if they were facts, when they were actually not true at all. However, because these pertain to family members of mine I would not do it on a public site such as this. I do respect the AP. They are probably one source that you can consistently rely on. The AP was actually a client of mine way back in the day. They are true journalists who have respect for reporting the news.
ETA: Just wondering why you chose to only ask for an outright lie from the AP?
You said the media lies. I got a lot of my news from the AP. Just pointing out that a blanket statement of "the media lies" isn't true.
So you agree that the Free Press is necessary, and depending on which tool you use, the media is a good thing. AP is part of the media, and if people chose to get their news from there instead of entertainment/propaganda sites, the world would be a different place.
I agree with you wholeheartedly however, unlike back in the day where the AP was the main source of news, that is not the case today. The AP had field offices worldwide and almost every news source relied on the AP wire for their news. Now every media outlet has their own news correspondents in every corner of the world and most do not adhere to the standards of the AP. I would say that when I look to news reporting now barely any of it seems to come from the AP.
And of course I believe that the Free Press is necessary and that the media should be a positive thing for everyone. I just think that their should be consequences for irresponsible reporting. Think about how many times an article comes out about a crime that someone committed that has very little basis and later the charges are dropped. Lives can be ruined because everyone remembers the irresponsible reporting that made headlines but no one sees the small article saying that the person was cleared and all charges dropped. That's just one small example. On a larger scale how about the media downplaying Trump's popularity to the point where people didn't realize how important it was to get out and vote and then HE WON! Look at where the media got us then....
Also I didn't say everything the media says is LIES - I said that the media lies - I don't mean about everything but there are times when they report untruths.
Message edited 2/1/2021 4:58:51 PM.
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| Posted 2/1/21 4:57 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9508 total posts
Name:
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Re: I dare you to disagree with Malcolm X
Posted by Hofstra26
Posted by lululu
Posted by Hofstra26
lulu.......... Trump absolutely, 100% and without question turned this country on the free press. That's not even debatable. His actions are why we are in a position where people would sooner believe some conspiracy site before an article on MSNBC.
Quite honestly, the news media is FAR less a threat than social media. FB, Twitter, Parler, Instagram and every conspiracy driven social media site has made people idiots. Memes aren't facts, FB isn't gospel, Twitter is a joke and unless we set standards for those types of platforms, the dumbing down of this nation will continue. It's frightening how many people get their information EXCLUSIVELY from social media. Social media platforms make it entirely too easy to spread misinformation and lies to the masses. Social media is the biggest challenge we face nowadays. No doubt.
Okay - That is your opinion that Trump turned the country on the media. I believe many people had already believed that the media was completely biased and unreliable long before Trump. I get it, you hate Trump. Everyone knows you hate Trump but if you can not see that Trump took advantage of something that was already a MAJOR contention for a lot of American people then you are blind. And frankly you are giving him too much credit. I think that your hatred for him distorts your view of reality in certain cases. With Trump you see red and you can't see the underlying forces that were already in motion in this country that Trump exploited to his benefit. That is my opinion. And above is YOUR opinion which I can respect but please don't say something with 100% certainty that you can not possibly back up with facts.
And the fact that social media and things that people take at face value that they see on social media is a threat goes back to my point. The American people in general are a very unintelligent group.
I could continue to argue with you but I am getting so tired of wasting my time with those who choose to live in a world of alternate facts.
Claiming that Trump wasn't the driving force between the media hate and mistrust shows a level of willful ignorance that is getting old to listen to.
Enjoy your day.
Omg - you really just read what you want to read! I never claimed he wasn't a driving force. In fact I specifically said that he took advantage of a situation and exploited the American people. Our difference of opinion is that you believe that he came up with this idea to turn the American people on the media and that is simply not the case. People were already fed up with news outlets reporting with such bias that Trump used that to cause even more division amongst the American people. I am just saying he didn't come up with this on his own. People already had issues with the media.
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| Posted 2/1/21 5:01 PM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: I dare you to disagree with Malcolm X
Posted by lululu
Posted by JennP
Posted by lululu
Posted by JennP
Posted by lululu
Posted by Hofstra26
lulu.......... Trump absolutely, 100% and without question turned this country on the free press. That's not even debatable. His actions are why we are in a position where people would sooner believe some conspiracy site before an article on MSNBC.
Quite honestly, the news media is FAR less a threat than social media. FB, Twitter, Parler, Instagram and every conspiracy driven social media site has made people idiots. Memes aren't facts, FB isn't gospel, Twitter is a joke and unless we set standards for those types of platforms, the dumbing down of this nation will continue. It's frightening how many people get their information EXCLUSIVELY from social media. Social media platforms make it entirely too easy to spread misinformation and lies to the masses. Social media is the biggest challenge we face nowadays. No doubt.
Okay - That is your opinion that Trump turned the country on the media. I believe many people had already believed that the media was completely biased and unreliable long before Trump. I get it, you hate Trump. Everyone knows you hate Trump but if you can not see that Trump took advantage of something that was already a MAJOR contention for a lot of American people then you are blind. And frankly you are giving him too much credit. I think that your hatred for him distorts your view of reality in certain cases. With Trump you see red and you can't see the underlying forces that were already in motion in this country that Trump exploited to his benefit. That is my opinion. And above is YOUR opinion which I can respect but please don't say something with 100% certainty that you can not possibly back up with facts.
And the fact that social media and things that people take at face value that they see on social media is a threat goes back to my point. The American people in general are a very unintelligent group.
Um, he called the press the enemy of the people.
No one is saying distrust didn't exist before but to deny he fanned these flames dangerously is absurd.
And your claim that her view of reality is distorted, she sees red, etc. does not comport with your claim that you respect her opinion.
How did I DENY that he fanned the flames? I specifically said "HE TOOK ADVANTAGE OF" and "TRUMP EXPLOITED." Please tell me specifically what I said that is dangerously absurd?
And you are probably right, I don't respect her opinion because I think her judgement is clouded by her hatred. So I will take that back. Hofstra I don't respect your opinion at all but I will agree to disagree on this one here.
You are misquoting me. My point was that you understated the situation. What he did was downright dangerous.
You cannot claim that a large contingent of Americans are unintelligent AND claim that she is giving Trump too much credit.
The truth is that he has built a cult like following and environment and vilified the press and many gullible people have bought into that.
I don't believe I misquoted you at all. You aren't saying that I understated a situation - you claimed I denied it, which I didn't. Quite the contrary.
And I do believe that Trump completely used the fact that Americans are stupid and easily influenced HOWEVER, I believe there was already a large undercurrent of media distrust prior to Trump coming along. If there wasn't I don't believe he would have been as successful as he was at bringing this distrust to a new level.
And I agree with you that he has built a cult like following of crazy red neck Americans. This goes back to my point of most Americans are stupid.
I just think that it's silly to say that the media doesn't play a huge part in public opinion and has the power to distort things if they choose to do so. That's going back to the original post to which Hofstra thinks is not completely true and that American's are smart enough to know the difference.
No one said the media doesn't play a huge part in public opinion. People are disagreeing with part of the extreme quote in the OP by adding nuance.
Of course there is a basis of truth to the quote. Because some don't entirely agree that doesn't mean that they believe the opposite extreme. There are shades of gray.
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| Posted 2/1/21 5:17 PM |
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MC09
arrrghhh!!!!
Member since 2/09 5674 total posts
Name:
Me speaks pirate!
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Re: I dare you to disagree with Malcolm X
Posted by lululu
Posted by JennP
Posted by lululu
Posted by Hofstra26
lulu.......... Trump absolutely, 100% and without question turned this country on the free press. That's not even debatable. His actions are why we are in a position where people would sooner believe some conspiracy site before an article on MSNBC.
Quite honestly, the news media is FAR less a threat than social media. FB, Twitter, Parler, Instagram and every conspiracy driven social media site has made people idiots. Memes aren't facts, FB isn't gospel, Twitter is a joke and unless we set standards for those types of platforms, the dumbing down of this nation will continue. It's frightening how many people get their information EXCLUSIVELY from social media. Social media platforms make it entirely too easy to spread misinformation and lies to the masses. Social media is the biggest challenge we face nowadays. No doubt.
Okay - That is your opinion that Trump turned the country on the media. I believe many people had already believed that the media was completely biased and unreliable long before Trump. I get it, you hate Trump. Everyone knows you hate Trump but if you can not see that Trump took advantage of something that was already a MAJOR contention for a lot of American people then you are blind. And frankly you are giving him too much credit. I think that your hatred for him distorts your view of reality in certain cases. With Trump you see red and you can't see the underlying forces that were already in motion in this country that Trump exploited to his benefit. That is my opinion. And above is YOUR opinion which I can respect but please don't say something with 100% certainty that you can not possibly back up with facts.
And the fact that social media and things that people take at face value that they see on social media is a threat goes back to my point. The American people in general are a very unintelligent group.
Um, he called the press the enemy of the people.
No one is saying distrust didn't exist before but to deny he fanned these flames dangerously is absurd.
And your claim that her view of reality is distorted, she sees red, etc. does not comport with your claim that you respect her opinion.
How did I DENY that he fanned the flames? I specifically said "HE TOOK ADVANTAGE OF" and "TRUMP EXPLOITED." Please tell me specifically what I said that is dangerously absurd?
And you are probably right, I don't respect her opinion because I think her judgement is clouded by her hatred. So I will take that back. Hofstra I don't respect your opinion at all but I will agree to disagree on this one here.
Debates about the media aside (which I don't disagree that some of the media is crap), I'm trying to understand your thought process. Earlier in the thread you said you should stop posting here because the thread was getting derailed and you would be accused of being a gun toting trump loving Republican. Nobody has accused you of any of that and the thread hasn't derailed, but then you go and say you don't respect another person's opinion because it differs from your own?
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| Posted 2/1/21 5:18 PM |
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GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!
Member since 11/06 26792 total posts
Name:
Shawn
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Re: I dare you to disagree with Malcolm X
Posted by lululu
Posted by GoldenRod
Posted by lululu
Posted by GoldenRod
Posted by lululu
... And above is YOUR opinion which I can respect but please don't say something with 100% certainty that you can not possibly back up with facts.
...
Posted by lululu
...
I have absolutely no respect for the media because they no longer present the facts. Everything has a spin on it and some things are just outright lies.
...
Could you point out the AP news articles that aren't fact, or are outright lies?
I can probably not point to an AP article with an outright lie but I can point to news articles from most mainstream news outlets that presented items as if they were facts, when they were actually not true at all. However, because these pertain to family members of mine I would not do it on a public site such as this. I do respect the AP. They are probably one source that you can consistently rely on. The AP was actually a client of mine way back in the day. They are true journalists who have respect for reporting the news.
ETA: Just wondering why you chose to only ask for an outright lie from the AP?
You said the media lies. I got a lot of my news from the AP. Just pointing out that a blanket statement of "the media lies" isn't true.
So you agree that the Free Press is necessary, and depending on which tool you use, the media is a good thing. AP is part of the media, and if people chose to get their news from there instead of entertainment/propaganda sites, the world would be a different place.
I agree with you wholeheartedly however, unlike back in the day where the AP was the main source of news, that is not the case today. The AP had field offices worldwide and almost every news source relied on the AP wire for their news. Now every media outlet has their own news correspondents in every corner of the world and most do not adhere to the standards of the AP. I would say that when I look to news reporting now barely any of it seems to come from the AP.
And of course I believe that the Free Press is necessary and that the media should be a positive thing for everyone. I just think that their should be consequences for irresponsible reporting. Think about how many times an article comes out about a crime that someone committed that has very little basis and later the charges are dropped. Lives can be ruined because everyone remembers the irresponsible reporting that made headlines but no one sees the small article saying that the person was cleared and all charges dropped. That's just one small example. On a larger scale how about the media downplaying Trump's popularity to the point where people didn't realize how important it was to get out and vote and then HE WON! Look at where the media got us then....
Also I didn't say everything the media says is LIES - I said that the media lies - I don't mean about everything but there are times when they report untruths.
I think we agree on this. I saw you say "I have absolutely no respect for the media because they no longer present the facts. " and I immediately had a knee-jerk response to that, since the AP is one of my main sources. I agree that there are a lot of sources of "information?" that is so far beyond biased it's crazy.
There needs to be some sort of label, like movie ratings, that indicate how biased/factual an article is. But since that would involve real-time fact checking, it's not even remotely feasible for most stories. Like you mentioned with the crimes, if it took a rating organization a week to verify a story, the fake story has already taken hold and dictated the outcome.
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| Posted 2/1/21 5:19 PM |
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GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!
Member since 11/06 26792 total posts
Name:
Shawn
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Re: I dare you to disagree with Malcolm X
Posted by JennP
...
No one said the media doesn't play a huge part in public opinion. People are disagreeing with part of the extreme quote in the OP by adding nuance.
Of course there is a basis of truth to the quote. Because some don't entirely agree that doesn't mean that they believe the opposite extreme. There are shades of gray.
I'm in that "shades of grey" area. The media absolutely does sway or sometimes dictate a lot of people's opinions, but not all media does, and not all people do.
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| Posted 2/1/21 5:24 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9508 total posts
Name:
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Re: I dare you to disagree with Malcolm X
Posted by GoldenRod
Posted by lululu
Posted by GoldenRod
Posted by lululu
Posted by GoldenRod
Posted by lululu
... And above is YOUR opinion which I can respect but please don't say something with 100% certainty that you can not possibly back up with facts.
...
Posted by lululu
...
I have absolutely no respect for the media because they no longer present the facts. Everything has a spin on it and some things are just outright lies.
...
Could you point out the AP news articles that aren't fact, or are outright lies?
I can probably not point to an AP article with an outright lie but I can point to news articles from most mainstream news outlets that presented items as if they were facts, when they were actually not true at all. However, because these pertain to family members of mine I would not do it on a public site such as this. I do respect the AP. They are probably one source that you can consistently rely on. The AP was actually a client of mine way back in the day. They are true journalists who have respect for reporting the news.
ETA: Just wondering why you chose to only ask for an outright lie from the AP?
You said the media lies. I got a lot of my news from the AP. Just pointing out that a blanket statement of "the media lies" isn't true.
So you agree that the Free Press is necessary, and depending on which tool you use, the media is a good thing. AP is part of the media, and if people chose to get their news from there instead of entertainment/propaganda sites, the world would be a different place.
I agree with you wholeheartedly however, unlike back in the day where the AP was the main source of news, that is not the case today. The AP had field offices worldwide and almost every news source relied on the AP wire for their news. Now every media outlet has their own news correspondents in every corner of the world and most do not adhere to the standards of the AP. I would say that when I look to news reporting now barely any of it seems to come from the AP.
And of course I believe that the Free Press is necessary and that the media should be a positive thing for everyone. I just think that their should be consequences for irresponsible reporting. Think about how many times an article comes out about a crime that someone committed that has very little basis and later the charges are dropped. Lives can be ruined because everyone remembers the irresponsible reporting that made headlines but no one sees the small article saying that the person was cleared and all charges dropped. That's just one small example. On a larger scale how about the media downplaying Trump's popularity to the point where people didn't realize how important it was to get out and vote and then HE WON! Look at where the media got us then....
Also I didn't say everything the media says is LIES - I said that the media lies - I don't mean about everything but there are times when they report untruths.
I think we agree on this. I saw you say "I have absolutely no respect for the media because they no longer present the facts. " and I immediately had a knee-jerk response to that, since the AP is one of my main sources. I agree that there are a lot of sources of "information?" that is so far beyond biased it's crazy.
There needs to be some sort of label, like movie ratings, that indicate how biased/factual an article is. But since that would involve real-time fact checking, it's not even remotely feasible for most stories. Like you mentioned with the crimes, if it took a rating organization a week to verify a story, the fake story has already taken hold and dictated the outcome.
This is EXACTLY what my husband says all the time - there should be a rating for news outlets. Like "biased right" or "biased left." Or just "entertainment." News from the AP would be "fact based."
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| Posted 2/1/21 5:41 PM |
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Hofstra26
Love to Bake!
Member since 7/06 27915 total posts
Name:
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Re: I dare you to disagree with Malcolm X
Posted by GoldenRod
Posted by JennP
...
No one said the media doesn't play a huge part in public opinion. People are disagreeing with part of the extreme quote in the OP by adding nuance.
Of course there is a basis of truth to the quote. Because some don't entirely agree that doesn't mean that they believe the opposite extreme. There are shades of gray.
I'm in that "shades of grey" area. The media absolutely does sway or sometimes dictate a lot of people's opinions, but not all media does, and not all people do.
Exactly.
Furthermore, for anyone to keep insisting that *most* Americans are stupid and easily influenced is nonsense. To insist that *most* media outlets lie and deceive is also nonsense. To ignore the reasons behind the drastic change in the public's opinion of the media over the last four years is ignorant. .
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| Posted 2/1/21 5:44 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9508 total posts
Name:
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Re: I dare you to disagree with Malcolm X
Posted by JennP
No one said the media doesn't play a huge part in public opinion. People are disagreeing with part of the extreme quote in the OP by adding nuance.
Of course there is a basis of truth to the quote. Because some don't entirely agree that doesn't mean that they believe the opposite extreme. There are shades of gray.
I don't really see the quote as "extreme." I think disagreeing with the quote because you think most people can form an educated opinion about something based on the information they are given from the media is naive.
The reason that there is a code of ethics for journalism thou and that there are such high standards put out by people like the associated press is precisely because the media does hold so much power. Think about the power of propaganda. It's so powerful because people do tend to take most things at face value and are easily influenced.
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| Posted 2/1/21 5:48 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9508 total posts
Name:
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Re: I dare you to disagree with Malcolm X
Posted by Hofstra26
Posted by GoldenRod
Posted by JennP
...
No one said the media doesn't play a huge part in public opinion. People are disagreeing with part of the extreme quote in the OP by adding nuance.
Of course there is a basis of truth to the quote. Because some don't entirely agree that doesn't mean that they believe the opposite extreme. There are shades of gray.
I'm in that "shades of grey" area. The media absolutely does sway or sometimes dictate a lot of people's opinions, but not all media does, and not all people do.
Exactly.
Furthermore, for anyone to keep insisting that *most* Americans are stupid and easily influenced is nonsense. To insist that *most* media outlets lie and deceive is also nonsense. To ignore the reasons behind the drastic change in the public's opinion of the media over the last four years is ignorant. .
I am starting to see why you and VB couldn't get along and I can't say I blame her.....
Please show where I say MOST media outlets lie. I said that I have seen firsthand things that were not true reported by the mainstream media.
And to ignore the undercurrent that was happening in America prior to Trump is EXACTLY why Trump got elected. To ignore that fact is ignorant and frankly it's dangerous.
Also, you might want to start traveling around the country a little more and get out of your little bubble because there are many other parts of the country that are completely different than the NY metro area.
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| Posted 2/1/21 5:51 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9508 total posts
Name:
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Re: I dare you to disagree with Malcolm X
Posted by Hofstra26
Posted by GoldenRod
Posted by JennP
...
No one said the media doesn't play a huge part in public opinion. People are disagreeing with part of the extreme quote in the OP by adding nuance.
Of course there is a basis of truth to the quote. Because some don't entirely agree that doesn't mean that they believe the opposite extreme. There are shades of gray.
I'm in that "shades of grey" area. The media absolutely does sway or sometimes dictate a lot of people's opinions, but not all media does, and not all people do.
Exactly.
Furthermore, for anyone to keep insisting that *most* Americans are stupid and easily influenced is nonsense. To insist that *most* media outlets lie and deceive is also nonsense. To ignore the reasons behind the drastic change in the public's opinion of the media over the last four years is ignorant. .
BTW you on this thread have talked about the effects of misinformation on social media! If people can be influenced by a meme you don't think that if they see something reported on the Today show, for example, that they will take that as gospel? You can't possibly say that someone that is influenced by fake news on facebook is intelligent!
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| Posted 2/1/21 5:56 PM |
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