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CookiePuss
Cake from Outer Space!
Member since 5/05 14007 total posts
Name:
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Re: eBay to sell LIVE animals-----
Posted by Redhead
Posted by DjPiLL
Posted by Redhead
If it allows the MISTREATMENT OF ANIMALS and said people USE EBAY to continue doing this...YES THEY SHOULD BE PREVENTED
I'll agree with this statement if you can show me cold hard proof that a particular ebay seller is guilty of this crime.
And i am not talking about generalizing.
there is hardcore proof that when i go into a STORE in the mall and look at those dogs...
there is MALTREAMENT...and it amazes me how this is able to continue  
All you really have to do is look up where these dogs are registered. A big one on LI is, the "Dog Registry of America". It was created by puppymill breeders for the sole purpose of creating "papers" so they could sell their dogs as pedigrees. Look at the requirements for registering a litter. It's disgusting! You can breed siblings and get papers for them. No genetic testing.
You can find this type of selling all over the internet. You just have to know what to look for.
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Posted 12/20/05 3:34 PM  |
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DjPiLL
Member since 5/05 3664 total posts
Name:
Richard
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Re: eBay to sell LIVE animals-----
Hell... while I am out there in the pet store buying that pet that was from a puppymill... I'll make sure I swipe my good old MASTERCARD to pay for it.
Then we can all blame MasterCard for officially lending me their money to pay for a dog that was brutally cared for. 
Hell... and since we are on a transit strike... i'll also blame that cab driver for allowing me to get to the pet store.
Hell... i'll even blame my wife for paying for my MasterCard when the bill comes.
Should I go on further.... or are we going to place the blame on ONE person and ONE industry?
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| Posted 12/20/05 3:37 PM |
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BabyBoy
is Skylar Elizabeth
Member since 5/05 4189 total posts
Name:
Tom
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Re: eBay to sell LIVE animals-----
Posted by Redhead
Posted by BabyBoy
yes
page 1
no
my job was to create a debate.... hence my first topic about tipping people but this one is much better 
babyboy....
you didn't do anything. You didn't start the debate? You didn't bring up the topic....
You now sound stupid. So i guess that goal was accomplished
you can call me stupid if you like...not sure why you would... thread had 100 views with 2 comments before i ask why is it a big deal..then you came in now we are on page 4
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| Posted 12/20/05 3:38 PM |
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MrsERod
Praying for Everyone.
Member since 5/05 26170 total posts
Name:
MrsERod™®
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Re: eBay to sell LIVE animals-----
Posted by BabyBoy
Posted by Redhead
IMO it is wrong.
to keep me from losing my mind...
why?
ebay is a business. just like regular products, you will never know how good it is until you receive the merchandise.
i think you may have already lost your mind!!!!!
an animal is NOT a "product" or merchandise
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| Posted 12/20/05 3:39 PM |
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CookiePuss
Cake from Outer Space!
Member since 5/05 14007 total posts
Name:
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Re: eBay to sell LIVE animals-----
Posted by DjPiLL
Hell... while I am out there in the pet store buying that pet that was from a puppymill... I'll make sure I swipe my good old MASTERCARD to pay for it.
Then we can all blame MasterCard for officially lending me their money to pay for a dog that was brutally cared for.
Hell... and since we are on a transit strike... i'll also blame that cab driver for allowing me to get to the pet store.
Hell... i'll even blame my wife for paying for my MasterCard when the bill comes.
Should I go on further.... or are we going to place the blame on ONE person and ONE industry?
Your argument could be made for lots of things.
Since Ebay makes a direct profit from the sellers, I think there is some responsiblity on Ebay's part. Where as with Mastercard, mastercard charges ebay a flat fee for the service regardless of what is purchased.
Ebay allowing the sale of animals is making a direct profit off the sale of said animals.
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| Posted 12/20/05 3:41 PM |
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DjPiLL
Member since 5/05 3664 total posts
Name:
Richard
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Re: eBay to sell LIVE animals-----
Posted by shamrock12472
Your argument could be made for lots of things.
Since Ebay makes a direct profit from the sellers, I think there is some responsiblity on Ebay's part. Where as with Mastercard, mastercard charges ebay a flat fee for the service regardless of what is purchased.
Ebay allowing the sale of animals is making a direct profit off the sale of said animals.
Both Mastercard and Ebay make a profit in this case. If its bad for ebay... it has to be bad for Mastercard.
If I am buying a pet from a petstore and i pay with a mastercard... mastercard will charge that pet store a percentage of the sale (typically 1%). Mastercard is making a profit just as direct as Ebay.
Mastercard COULD do the right thing and now allow their card to be used in any pet store... but do you REALLY think thats going to happen? LOL
I agree with all the things about bad breeders and stuff... but this is devils advocate bigtime.
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| Posted 12/20/05 3:44 PM |
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DjPiLL
Member since 5/05 3664 total posts
Name:
Richard
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Re: eBay to sell LIVE animals-----
And people thought I have been quiet the past few weeks.
Its all about looking for the "RIGHT" threads. If anyone hasn't noticed yet... I *love* playing devils advocate. 
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| Posted 12/20/05 3:45 PM |
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CookiePuss
Cake from Outer Space!
Member since 5/05 14007 total posts
Name:
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Re: eBay to sell LIVE animals-----
Posted by DjPiLL
Posted by shamrock12472
Your argument could be made for lots of things.
Since Ebay makes a direct profit from the sellers, I think there is some responsiblity on Ebay's part. Where as with Mastercard, mastercard charges ebay a flat fee for the service regardless of what is purchased.
Ebay allowing the sale of animals is making a direct profit off the sale of said animals.
Both Mastercard and Ebay make a profit in this case. If its bad for ebay... it has to be bad for Mastercard.
If I am buying a pet from a petstore and i pay with a mastercard... mastercard will charge that pet store a percentage of the sale (typically 1%). Mastercard is making a profit just as direct as Ebay.
Mastercard COULD do the right thing and now allow their card to be used in any pet store... but do you REALLY think thats going to happen? LOL
I agree with all the things about bad breeders and stuff... but this is devils advocate bigtime.
I agree, mastercard is making a profit but mastercard didn't provide the forum for the sale and isn't making a profit off of the transaction. It's making a profit that includes the transaction but that profit is for being able to use the serivce. Ebay makes the profit from the seller selling the animal. I see a difference but it's a very grey line.
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| Posted 12/20/05 3:48 PM |
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BabyBoy
is Skylar Elizabeth
Member since 5/05 4189 total posts
Name:
Tom
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Re: eBay to sell LIVE animals-----
Posted by MrsERod
Posted by BabyBoy
Posted by Redhead
IMO it is wrong.
to keep me from losing my mind...
why?
ebay is a business. just like regular products, you will never know how good it is until you receive the merchandise.
i think you may have already lost your mind!!!!!
an animal is NOT a "product" or merchandise
i probally have...i just wanted to know what is the big deal...
ebay is no different a store at the mall
its a business
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| Posted 12/20/05 3:49 PM |
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DjPiLL
Member since 5/05 3664 total posts
Name:
Richard
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Re: eBay to sell LIVE animals-----
Posted by shamrock12472
I agree, mastercard is making a profit but mastercard didn't provide the forum for the sale and isn't making a profit off of the transaction. It's making a profit that includes the transaction but that profit is for being able to use the serivce. Ebay makes the profit from the seller selling the animal. I see a difference but it's a very grey line.
They are providing the forum! Don't you think that a pet store that was CASH ONLY because they can't get a credit card company to sign with them... would do MUCH WORSE business than a petstore that accepted plastic?
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| Posted 12/20/05 3:50 PM |
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MsMBV
:P
Member since 5/05 28602 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: eBay to sell LIVE animals-----
Posted by Shellyesq
Posted by Lolita4Life
REPUTABLE breeders dont-------- backyard breeders do
its not about $$$ for rep. beeders.. its about bettering the lines.
byb are out to get money.
I think you are a little out there on this one. Every breeder (which granted, is not many) I know has never charged less than $1000 for a purebread. Sometimes they'll go down a few hundred- but that's still a whole lotta $$$
If that was the case, why don't breeders sell their dogs for a lot less $$$$.
I have never paid that much for any of my purebreds. EVER...and the only time I have ever seen them for that much is through a broker or in a pet shop (and 90% of all pet shops DO sell from puppy mills). They buy the dogs for only a few hundred, then jack the price up to several thousand for *clean lines* (which never are).
The problem is there are many BYB that are appearing reputable to the masses. Not to be offensive, but you yourself said that you do not know too many breeders. If someone is incredibly active in the show, breeding AND rescue community, it becomes very easy to discover who is a legit breeder & who is a BYB or a puppy mill. The more you know the easier it is to see which breeders are reputable and which ones are in it for ONLY the $$. The money they do charge is to cover the enormous expense of testing lines, vet care, proper breeding fees and arrangements with other reputable breeders, and ongoing care of the bithc & stud. It is not as much profit as many might think.
Message edited 12/20/2005 3:56:37 PM.
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| Posted 12/20/05 3:51 PM |
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CookiePuss
Cake from Outer Space!
Member since 5/05 14007 total posts
Name:
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Re: eBay to sell LIVE animals-----
Posted by DjPiLL
Posted by shamrock12472
I agree, mastercard is making a profit but mastercard didn't provide the forum for the sale and isn't making a profit off of the transaction. It's making a profit that includes the transaction but that profit is for being able to use the serivce. Ebay makes the profit from the seller selling the animal. I see a difference but it's a very grey line.
They are providing the forum! Don't you think that a pet store that was CASH ONLY because they can't get a credit card company to sign with them... would do MUCH WORSE business than a petstore that accepted plastic?
Mastercard isn't providing the forum; they aren't putting sellers and buyer together to transact business. Mastercard is providing a service in regards to payment of transactions. I can't bypass Ebay and buy something in Mastercard's auction site.
I don't know if a cash only business would do better then one that accepts credit cards. I know of several business that seem profitable that don't accept credit cards.
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| Posted 12/20/05 3:56 PM |
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DjPiLL
Member since 5/05 3664 total posts
Name:
Richard
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Re: eBay to sell LIVE animals-----
Posted by shamrock12472
Mastercard isn't providing the forum; they aren't putting sellers and buyer together to transact business. Mastercard is providing a service in regards to payment of transactions. I can't bypass Ebay and buy something in Mastercard's auction site.
I don't know if a cash only business would do better then one that accepts credit cards. I know of several business that seem profitable that don't accept credit cards.
Mastercard is lending you THEIR money to purchase these dogs. It isn't your money and if you default on paying mastercard... its actually their money... their dog... their reputation.
They may not be putting buyers and sellers together directly... but do you think 65 year old grandma will want to carry a wad of 20s in her purse to purchase a poodle at "Mom and Pop's Dog Store" when she can walk down the block to PETCO that takes MasterCard?
A cash only business without a doubt would do much worse. The whole world practically lives on plastic now.
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| Posted 12/20/05 4:00 PM |
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Jesaroo
is not the girl you knew
Member since 5/05 14266 total posts
Name:
Jes
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Re: eBay to sell LIVE animals-----
ok, talking about mastercard being responsible for puppymills is obserd.
i realize you are trying to makea point here DJ..... but i think this is getting wAY out of hnad and off the topic.
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| Posted 12/20/05 4:02 PM |
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DjPiLL
Member since 5/05 3664 total posts
Name:
Richard
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Re: eBay to sell LIVE animals-----
Posted by Lolita4Life
ok, talking about mastercard being responsible for puppymills is obserd.
i realize you are trying to makea point here DJ..... but i think this is getting wAY out of hnad and off the topic.
Its right on topic actually. Blaming ebay is no different than blaming the landlords for renting to pet stores... and blaming any financial institution that rents out their services and lends their money to pay for these such things.
Can't sugarcoat this one.
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| Posted 12/20/05 4:04 PM |
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Jesaroo
is not the girl you knew
Member since 5/05 14266 total posts
Name:
Jes
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Re: eBay to sell LIVE animals-----
mastercard isnt selling puppymill dogs.
shops do.
and ebay wants to.
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| Posted 12/20/05 4:06 PM |
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unknown1
****
Member since 5/05 2771 total posts
Name:
lisa
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Re: eBay to sell LIVE animals-----
Posted by Lolita4Life
ok, talking about mastercard being responsible for puppymills is obserd.
i realize you are trying to makea point here DJ..... but i think this is getting wAY out of hnad and off the topic.
I do agree with this we are way off base ....I agree with NO selling of animals on E-BAY... I personally think it will promote more puppy mills, there already is enough cruelty done to animals lets not promote more.
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| Posted 12/20/05 4:06 PM |
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CookiePuss
Cake from Outer Space!
Member since 5/05 14007 total posts
Name:
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Re: eBay to sell LIVE animals-----
Posted by DjPiLL
Posted by shamrock12472
Mastercard isn't providing the forum; they aren't putting sellers and buyer together to transact business. Mastercard is providing a service in regards to payment of transactions. I can't bypass Ebay and buy something in Mastercard's auction site.
I don't know if a cash only business would do better then one that accepts credit cards. I know of several business that seem profitable that don't accept credit cards.
Mastercard is lending you THEIR money to purchase these dogs. It isn't your money and if you default on paying mastercard... its actually their money... their dog... their reputation.
They may not be putting buyers and sellers together directly... but do you think 65 year old grandma will want to carry a wad of 20s in her purse to purchase a poodle at "Mom and Pop's Dog Store" when she can walk down the block to PETCO that takes MasterCard?
A cash only business without a doubt would do much worse. The whole world practically lives on plastic now.
Mastercard isn't really lending you their money, they are lending their customers's money; they sell their debt for profit, float cash, etc. Debt service is very complex but this isnt' the point.
Petco doesn't sell animals. They adopt out animals.
I honestly can't say whether a business is more profitible having credit card service or not. I'm not auditing their books. Depending on the product, the percentage for the being able to offer credit card usage could be very high, thereby not using a service such as mastercard, could raise the business profit margin.
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| Posted 12/20/05 4:06 PM |
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unknown1
****
Member since 5/05 2771 total posts
Name:
lisa
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Re: eBay to sell LIVE animals-----
Posted by DjPiLL
Posted by Lolita4Life
ok, talking about mastercard being responsible for puppymills is obserd.
i realize you are trying to makea point here DJ..... but i think this is getting wAY out of hnad and off the topic.
Its right on topic actually. Blaming ebay is no different than blaming the landlords for renting to pet stores... and blaming any financial institution that rents out their services and lends their money to pay for these such things.
Can't sugarcoat this one.
Don't you think it is the building owners JOB as an owner to check out what his space is being used for ????
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| Posted 12/20/05 4:07 PM |
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DjPiLL
Member since 5/05 3664 total posts
Name:
Richard
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Re: eBay to sell LIVE animals-----
Posted by unbelievable
Don't you think it is the building owners JOB as an owner to check out what his space is being used for ????
You can very easily add a clause in your commercial lease saying no live animals will be sold on the premises.
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| Posted 12/20/05 4:08 PM |
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unknown1
****
Member since 5/05 2771 total posts
Name:
lisa
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Re: eBay to sell LIVE animals-----
Posted by DjPiLL
Posted by unbelievable
Don't you think it is the building owners JOB as an owner to check out what his space is being used for ????
You can very easily add a clause in your commercial lease saying no live animals will be sold on the premises.
Yes but I work in commercial liability ... and it is the LANDLORD who has a duty to keep tabs on there building. If there is a fire .. it is there responsbility as well as the store owner BOTH had a responsibility.
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| Posted 12/20/05 4:11 PM |
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CookiePuss
Cake from Outer Space!
Member since 5/05 14007 total posts
Name:
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Re: eBay to sell LIVE animals-----
Posted by DjPiLL
Posted by Lolita4Life
ok, talking about mastercard being responsible for puppymills is obserd.
i realize you are trying to makea point here DJ..... but i think this is getting wAY out of hnad and off the topic.
Its right on topic actually. Blaming ebay is no different than blaming the landlords for renting to pet stores... and blaming any financial institution that rents out their services and lends their money to pay for these such things.
Can't sugarcoat this one.
Based on this theory, then landlords would be responsible for children being molested because they rented an apartment to a pedophilia. Or the mall is responsible for people's cars being stolen because they provide the parking lot. I don't think liability exists across the board just because there is some connection no matter how far removed.
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| Posted 12/20/05 4:12 PM |
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Jesaroo
is not the girl you knew
Member since 5/05 14266 total posts
Name:
Jes
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Re: eBay to sell LIVE animals-----
good points!
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| Posted 12/20/05 4:13 PM |
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DjPiLL
Member since 5/05 3664 total posts
Name:
Richard
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Re: eBay to sell LIVE animals-----
Posted by unbelievable
Posted by DjPiLL
Posted by unbelievable
Don't you think it is the building owners JOB as an owner to check out what his space is being used for ????
You can very easily add a clause in your commercial lease saying no live animals will be sold on the premises.
Yes but I work in commercial liability ... and it is the LANDLORD who has a duty to keep tabs on there building. If there is a fire .. it is there responsbility as well as the store owner BOTH had a responsibility.
I really don't get what you are saying here since you first said the building owner said they don't have responsibility... but now you are saying the landlord (who is typically the building owner) has duties.
Like I said... a simple clause in the commercial lease would prevent any live animals from being sold.
But a landlord is never going to do this since they want to make money just like everyone else does.
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| Posted 12/20/05 4:13 PM |
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DjPiLL
Member since 5/05 3664 total posts
Name:
Richard
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Re: eBay to sell LIVE animals-----
Posted by shamrock12472
Based on this theory, then landlords would be responsible for children being molested because they rented an apartment to a pedophilia. Or the mall is responsible for people's cars being stolen because they provide the parking lot. I don't think liability exists across the board just because there is some connection no matter how far removed.
Exactly... so IMO Ebay should not be blamed in this scenario. Blame the sellers on ebay who do the bad acts.
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| Posted 12/20/05 4:14 PM |
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