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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9508 total posts
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Appropriate school punishment
There are two 9 year old boys. Boy A & Boy B are good friends both in and out of school. Every day they play an organized sports game at recess. Boy B is very sensitive and emotionally immature - he cries in front of his peers occasionally. Sometimes the other boys make fun of him for this. He has told the recess aides. Nothing has been done. Boy B starts crying one day and Boy A starts making fun of him. Boy B takes a swing with an open hand at Boy A and hits him in the side, hard enough that Boy A falls to the ground and has a red mark on his side that goes away after about an hour. Recess Aide sees this sends Boy A to the nurse where he proceeds to lie and say he got hit with a ball because he doesn't want Boy B to get in trouble. It all comes out that Boy A lied, he was making fun of Boy B and Boy B hit him.
What's the appropriate punishment from the school for each of the boys? As a side note, neither boy has ever been in trouble, and Boy B has never struck anyone either in or out of school and they are both very good students.
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Posted 5/12/18 10:27 AM  |
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MichLiz213
Life is Good!
Member since 7/07 7979 total posts
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Appropriate school punishment
Loss of recess for a day or two for both boys.
How good they are on a regular basis is a non-factor. Actions have consequences.
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| Posted 5/12/18 2:04 PM |
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PatsBrat
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 2326 total posts
Name:
Ms. Brat
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Re: Appropriate school punishment
I think an apology from each boy to the other is sufficient in this case. They each made a mistake and hopefully will learn from them.
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| Posted 5/12/18 2:59 PM |
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nycgirl
Angels!
Member since 3/09 7721 total posts
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Re: Appropriate school punishment
Nothing. This is a good life lesson.
Boy B should, for life, learn how to stop crying. Sounds mean, but I have a Boy B myself.
Boy A should learn there are consequences for making fun of kids. Sounds mean... but even without the crying, if you make fun of someone, you should expect a backlash.
Easier to learn these things as a young kid
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| Posted 5/12/18 7:50 PM |
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BargainMama
LIF Adult
Member since 5/09 15657 total posts
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Re: Appropriate school punishment
Putting your hands on someone else at school should never be acceptable, EVER. So sitting in the Principal's office for a good few days during recess is what sounds good to me. Even a one day suspension. Yes, sounds extreme, but this should never be tolerated, no matter what the circumstances.
Now, in our school, I doubt anything would happen. There was a boy who twisted my daughter's wrist SO HARD that it hurt her for a couple of days. He was spoken to by the Principal, but as far as a punishment, there wasn't one. I think there needs to be a punishment when you resort to putting your hands on someone else.
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| Posted 5/12/18 7:55 PM |
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MrsT809
LIF Adult
Member since 9/09 12167 total posts
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Appropriate school punishment
Being good students shouldn't really matter and neither should not having been in trouble before. Shouldn't there be a code of conduct outlining the consequences in the school? Whatever the consequence for bullying and hitting, that is what each should receive depending on which offense they committed imo. Boy A should perhaps also receive a consequence for lying.
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| Posted 5/12/18 8:25 PM |
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Sash
Peace
Member since 6/08 10312 total posts
Name:
fka LIW Smara
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Re: Appropriate school punishment
Boy B should get in trouble for hitting especially to the point he marked another students.
Boy A should have a firm talking to by his parents in regards to 1. Lying and 2. Making fun of boy B.
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| Posted 5/13/18 5:25 AM |
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3girls1dog
LIF Adult
Member since 10/09 929 total posts
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Re: Appropriate school punishment
Posted by nycgirl
Nothing. This is a good life lesson.
Boy B should, for life, learn how to stop crying. Sounds mean, but I have a Boy B myself.
Boy A should learn there are consequences for making fun of kids. Sounds mean... but even without the crying, if you make fun of someone, you should expect a backlash.
Easier to learn these things as a young kid
agree!
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| Posted 5/14/18 6:56 AM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9508 total posts
Name:
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Re: Appropriate school punishment
Okay my boy is Boy B. After the incident the school called me down to the school and proceeded to tell me that they were suspending my son. I felt that this was way too extreme a punishment, especially considering 1. It was his first offense (he has never been in trouble for anything at all before) and 2. He was provoked by the other boy. If they had suggested no recess for a week I would have been fine with it but a suspension for this I think is way over the top. It would have gone on his permanent record. Not to mention I know children at this school who bully kids relentlessly and get in trouble for it but don't even get suspended. I just wanted to see if I was crazy. After complaining relentlessly they lowered the punishment but I had to send him to school today not knowing what his punishment will be. His anxiety is through the roof and his biggest fear is that the kids will make fun of him more now for getting in trouble. It's such a mess but I wanted to see if most people would automatically jump to the conclusion that this should be a suspension, which clearly almost no one did. And like I said, I would be fine with a week of no recess which I think was the harshest punishment here other than the suspension.
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| Posted 5/14/18 8:57 AM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9508 total posts
Name:
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Re: Appropriate school punishment
Posted by 3girls1dog
Posted by nycgirl
Nothing. This is a good life lesson.
Boy B should, for life, learn how to stop crying. Sounds mean, but I have a Boy B myself.
Boy A should learn there are consequences for making fun of kids. Sounds mean... but even without the crying, if you make fun of someone, you should expect a backlash.
Easier to learn these things as a young kid
agree!
I know we have told him for years now he needs to learn to control the crying because he will get picked on for it. It's just a fact of life. And I tell him the real world is not school - there aren't anti-bullying rules outside of school. If you cry over stupid things the kids will tease you and no one is going to stop them. We are trying to teach him to just walk away so no one sees the tears. I feel bad for him, he's so sensitive and he really does have a hard time controlling it. Me and my DH are both sensitive too so we clearly know where he gets it from.
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| Posted 5/14/18 9:00 AM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9508 total posts
Name:
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Re: Appropriate school punishment
Posted by MrsT809
Being good students shouldn't really matter and neither should not having been in trouble before. Shouldn't there be a code of conduct outlining the consequences in the school? Whatever the consequence for bullying and hitting, that is what each should receive depending on which offense they committed imo. Boy A should perhaps also receive a consequence for lying.
It outlines that bullying and hitting are not allowed but consequences are not spelled out. And the principal flat out lied to me and told me that hitting is an automatic suspension and that it's spelled out in the code of conduct, which I know it is absolutely not, and then had to backtrack when I demanded that she show it to me in writing.
Message edited 5/14/2018 9:02:37 AM.
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| Posted 5/14/18 9:02 AM |
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KarenK122
The Journey is the Destination
Member since 5/05 4431 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Appropriate school punishment
Has the bullying been documented? If not, it needs to be. If the teasing is causing Boy B to lash out then that needs to be resolved. As for the hitting. There is no excuse for hitting unless it was in self defense. Regardless of what happened, placing your hands on someone else, deserves a strict consequence.
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| Posted 5/14/18 10:11 AM |
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phoenix913
LIF Adult
Member since 5/05 3034 total posts
Name:
V
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Re: Appropriate school punishment
Posted by 3girls1dog
Posted by nycgirl
Nothing. This is a good life lesson.
Boy B should, for life, learn how to stop crying. Sounds mean, but I have a Boy B myself.
Boy A should learn there are consequences for making fun of kids. Sounds mean... but even without the crying, if you make fun of someone, you should expect a backlash.
Easier to learn these things as a young kid
agree!
Completely agree with this too. Suspension for this is absolutely insane. And then we sit around and wonder why kids can't handle themselves and solve problems on their own. They handled it the way kids have done since the beginning of time. Hopefully they both learned their lesson.
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| Posted 5/14/18 10:35 AM |
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itsagoodlife
LIF Adolescent
Member since 8/15 619 total posts
Name:
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Re: Appropriate school punishment
Suspension is absolutely appropriate for the child that hit another so hard that he fell to the ground. Provoked or not, hitting another that hard? If I were that child's parent, I would be furious. The kid who did the hitting needs to learn to control his anger. If he were getting teased badly enough that he felt the need to lash out like that, perhaps he should have gotten a teacher involved.
Hitting is never appropriate
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| Posted 5/14/18 10:42 AM |
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EricaAlt
LIF Adult
Member since 7/08 22665 total posts
Name:
Erica
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Re: Appropriate school punishment
Posted by phoenix913
Posted by 3girls1dog
Posted by nycgirl
Nothing. This is a good life lesson.
Boy B should, for life, learn how to stop crying. Sounds mean, but I have a Boy B myself.
Boy A should learn there are consequences for making fun of kids. Sounds mean... but even without the crying, if you make fun of someone, you should expect a backlash.
Easier to learn these things as a young kid
agree!
Completely agree with this too. Suspension for this is absolutely insane. And then we sit around and wonder why kids can't handle themselves and solve problems on their own. They handled it the way kids have done since the beginning of time. Hopefully they both learned their lesson.
This! They need to learn to take care of it themselves. Sounds like my DS and his friends.
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| Posted 5/14/18 10:42 AM |
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CookiePuss
Cake from Outer Space!
Member since 5/05 14007 total posts
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Re: Appropriate school punishment
Posted by itsagoodlife
Suspension is absolutely appropriate for the child that hit another so hard that he fell to the ground. Provoked or not, hitting another that hard? If I were that child's parent, I would be furious. The kid who did the hitting needs to learn to control his anger. If he were getting teased badly enough that he felt the need to lash out like that, perhaps he should have gotten a teacher involved.
Hitting is never appropriate
I agree. I think suspension was appropriate.
I think Boy A could use some peer counseling but, since he lied to protect Boy B; it seems he does have some empathy for Boy B.
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| Posted 5/14/18 12:26 PM |
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Aries14
Can't plan life...
Member since 8/08 2860 total posts
Name:
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Re: Appropriate school punishment
Posted by itsagoodlife
Suspension is absolutely appropriate for the child that hit another so hard that he fell to the ground. Provoked or not, hitting another that hard? If I were that child's parent, I would be furious. The kid who did the hitting needs to learn to control his anger. If he were getting teased badly enough that he felt the need to lash out like that, perhaps he should have gotten a teacher involved.
Hitting is never appropriate
I agree with this as well. I think suspension was appropriate.
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| Posted 5/14/18 1:36 PM |
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b2b777
LIF Adult
Member since 9/09 4474 total posts
Name:
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Re: Appropriate school punishment
Posted by Aries14
Posted by itsagoodlife
Suspension is absolutely appropriate for the child that hit another so hard that he fell to the ground. Provoked or not, hitting another that hard? If I were that child's parent, I would be furious. The kid who did the hitting needs to learn to control his anger. If he were getting teased badly enough that he felt the need to lash out like that, perhaps he should have gotten a teacher involved.
Hitting is never appropriate
I agree with this as well. I think suspension was appropriate.
Words are as strong or stronger than a physical push sometimes. If you think suspension was appropriate do you think the same suspension for Boy A would be equally appropriate? I think the punishment should be the same for both of them.
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| Posted 5/14/18 3:26 PM |
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Aries14
Can't plan life...
Member since 8/08 2860 total posts
Name:
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Re: Appropriate school punishment
Posted by b2b777
Posted by Aries14
Posted by itsagoodlife
Suspension is absolutely appropriate for the child that hit another so hard that he fell to the ground. Provoked or not, hitting another that hard? If I were that child's parent, I would be furious. The kid who did the hitting needs to learn to control his anger. If he were getting teased badly enough that he felt the need to lash out like that, perhaps he should have gotten a teacher involved.
Hitting is never appropriate
I agree with this as well. I think suspension was appropriate.
Words are as strong or stronger than a physical push sometimes. If you think suspension was appropriate do you think the same suspension for Boy A would be equally appropriate? I think the punishment should be the same for both of them.
Yes, words are strong but physically putting your hands on someone else hard enough to knock him down is another level. In most schools it is an automatic suspension. I think Boy A should have some sort of punishment but I do believe Boy B's suspension was appropriate.
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| Posted 5/14/18 4:16 PM |
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nycgirl
Angels!
Member since 3/09 7721 total posts
Name:
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Re: Appropriate school punishment
Posted by phoenix913
Posted by 3girls1dog
Posted by nycgirl
Nothing. This is a good life lesson.
Boy B should, for life, learn how to stop crying. Sounds mean, but I have a Boy B myself.
Boy A should learn there are consequences for making fun of kids. Sounds mean... but even without the crying, if you make fun of someone, you should expect a backlash.
Easier to learn these things as a young kid
agree!
Completely agree with this too. Suspension for this is absolutely insane. And then we sit around and wonder why kids can't handle themselves and solve problems on their own. They handled it the way kids have done since the beginning of time. Hopefully they both learned their lesson.
We’ve been in this situation. Suspension is really harsh (too harsh IMO, but I get the argument)... especially if you’ve ever seen the taunting in action (I have). It’s really hard to tell a kid to just ignore it or walk away. Especially if they are young. Sorry. The good news is that after my son “punched” our kid A, they both stayed away from each other. The bad news is that hitting is not the forever fix.
For your own kid’s sake and to CYA, I think child therapy did help (though it is $$$). Emotions will be there, but the outlet will be more socially acceptable.
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| Posted 5/14/18 4:17 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9508 total posts
Name:
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Re: Appropriate school punishment
Posted by itsagoodlife
Suspension is absolutely appropriate for the child that hit another so hard that he fell to the ground. Provoked or not, hitting another that hard? If I were that child's parent, I would be furious. The kid who did the hitting needs to learn to control his anger. If he were getting teased badly enough that he felt the need to lash out like that, perhaps he should have gotten a teacher involved.
Hitting is never appropriate
As i stated in my post he did tell the school aides that he was being teased on three separate occasions and they did nothing to help him. Just out of curiosity if your child was making fun of a kid that was crying how would U feel? Personally I would have actually been more upset if it had been my kid that had been taunting another.
Also I get the “anger management” arguement but my son is actually such a gentle kid normally. He has two younger sisters that regularly beat the crap out of him and he has never laid a hand on them.
Message edited 5/14/2018 6:42:36 PM.
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| Posted 5/14/18 6:29 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9508 total posts
Name:
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Re: Appropriate school punishment
Can I also ask those that support suspension of a 9 year old, what do you think that the suspension accomplishes? 9 year old boys would take a day off over going to school any day. Isn’t there a more appropriate punishment?
I actually worked with the school and he had a three hour time out today during which time he had to do the class work he was missing, meet with the vice principal as well as the school social worker and a counselor. Then all the boys involved met with the recess aide to discuss how to handle things better on the playground and they all have to take a week off from that sport this week. I feel like that accomplishes a hell of a lot more than a suspension at this age level.
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| Posted 5/14/18 6:49 PM |
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PatsBrat
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 2326 total posts
Name:
Ms. Brat
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Re: Appropriate school punishment
Posted by lululu
Can I also ask those that support suspension of a 9 year old, what do you think that the suspension accomplishes? 9 year old boys would take a day off over going to school any day. Isn’t there a more appropriate punishment?
I am an elementary school teacher and I can tell you from extensive experience that at that age it accomplishes 1 of 2 things, sometimes both.
#1 it could teach a child that misbehaving gets you a day off, which may lead to further incidents.
#2 it could teach a child that he is so "bad" that others don't want him around, which often leads to an attitude of "why bother to try since I'm so horrible"
There are many more suitable punishments.
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| Posted 5/14/18 7:37 PM |
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MrsT809
LIF Adult
Member since 9/09 12167 total posts
Name:
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Re: Appropriate school punishment
Posted by lululu
I actually worked with the school and he had a three hour time out today during which time he had to do the class work he was missing, meet with the vice principal as well as the school social worker and a counselor. Then all the boys involved met with the recess aide to discuss how to handle things better on the playground and they all have to take a week off from that sport this week. I feel like that accomplishes a hell of a lot more than a suspension at this age level.
I think this was a great approach. I honestly don't have experience with what consequences even exist at the elementary level (even having worked in them) so I had a hard time answering your question. Talking through the problem is obviously beneficial and missing a preferred activity will hopefully be a deterrent. Teaching kids how to better handle things and that there are negative ramifications is a good combo imo.
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| Posted 5/14/18 8:16 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9508 total posts
Name:
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Re: Appropriate school punishment
Posted by PatsBrat
Posted by lululu
Can I also ask those that support suspension of a 9 year old, what do you think that the suspension accomplishes? 9 year old boys would take a day off over going to school any day. Isn’t there a more appropriate punishment?
I am an elementary school teacher and I can tell you from extensive experience that at that age it accomplishes 1 of 2 things, sometimes both.
#1 it could teach a child that misbehaving gets you a day off, which may lead to further incidents.
#2 it could teach a child that he is so "bad" that others don't want him around, which often leads to an attitude of "why bother to try since I'm so horrible"
There are many more suitable punishments.
Thank you! Those were actually my thoughts exactly when they brought up suspension. It seemed to me like the easy way out for the school frankly. And what if I didn’t work from home? Now the punishment would have been on me or my husband to either miss a day of work or pay for childcare. As it is, my son is actually an angel when home and I do work from home so on that front the suspension wouldn’t have been an issue. But the school doesn’t know that.
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| Posted 5/14/18 8:45 PM |
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