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CookiePuss
Cake from Outer Space!
Member since 5/05 14007 total posts
Name:
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Universal Pre K vs Post High School Education
So, there seems to be a lot of focus on these two issues insomuch as that a traditional k-12 is not enough.
Personally, I am not a fan of universal pre k. As a form of state funded child care - maybe if it's run more as a play group then a classroom. I don't think children that young benefit all that much from rote learning and testing as opposed to learning from play and hands on activities. I look at Finland where traditional school doesn't even start until 7 years of age.
I would rather see money for pre - k funneled in to post 12 higher education. I think that would benefit our society in a much greater and meaningful way. This could give an opportunity for post high school or vocational training which tend to be supported with higher paying jobs.
What do you guys think?
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Posted 4/28/21 6:31 PM  |
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LittleDiva
LIF Adult
Member since 9/11 1284 total posts
Name:
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Universal Pre K vs Post High School Education
I don’t support pre-k, especially full day. I would like to see more put into the high schools /9-12. More into trade and specialty teaching. Preparing our youth to function in the real world. Community college should be free. 2 year Specialty or trade schools should be more affordable or free.
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| Posted 4/28/21 6:43 PM |
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GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!
Member since 11/06 26792 total posts
Name:
Shawn
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Re: Universal Pre K vs Post High School Education
My two went to UpK, but we did it because 1, it was free, and 2, for the socialization. Not for the educational portion. If it wasn't offered, it wouldn't have bothered or affected us much.
I would also like to see more emphasis put on post-12 education. Definitely funding for trade schools, and at least 2 years of community/State college. Even if post-12 isn't free, if it's heavily subsidized, it will help out a lot of people.
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| Posted 4/28/21 6:58 PM |
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LuckyStar
LIF Adult
Member since 7/14 7272 total posts
Name:
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Universal Pre K vs Post High School Education
I think there needs to be more merit-based funding for college and looser criteria for financial aid.
UPK should be available for underserved groups who would not have any early childhood educational opportunities otherwise. Daycares and full day pre-k programs should be fully tax deductible.
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| Posted 4/28/21 7:09 PM |
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ap123
LIF Infant
Member since 10/10 268 total posts
Name:
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Universal Pre K vs Post High School Education
I think universal pre K is very important for kids that would otherwise be sitting in front of a tv. Not every child comes from a household with parents or caregivers reading to them and teaching them basic skills. It builds foundational skills that some kids might not get at home.
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| Posted 4/28/21 7:20 PM |
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RainyDay
LIF Adult
Member since 6/15 3986 total posts
Name:
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Universal Pre K vs Post High School Education
I see arguments for both. Not everyone is made to go to college so I think funding for trade schools is extremely important. On the other hand a lot of people have issue with childcare so preschool/pre-k is equally as important. My DD thankully has grandparents that teach her during the day. The only reason we put her in pre-k was so she can learn to socialize with kids her age. Not everyone has caregivers like my inlaws who are willing or able to teach.
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| Posted 4/28/21 8:10 PM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54917 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Universal Pre K vs Post High School Education
I see both sides.
I don't believe a college degree is as necessary as we make it out to be. For certain professionals- like medicine, law, teaching etc yes.
But I can 100% have done my current job with no degree. My boss, who is a VP in the company , never went to college.
Some of my best hires have no degree.
So it really depends on the industry.
And then of course there is the trades- like plumbers, electricians etc who make a great living without a college degree.
As far as Universal Pre K- not everyone can afford private day care and Pre K. I was fortunate to be able to afford to send her to a private Pre K, and I see the difference it made in her in terms of readiness for school.
So I do believe all children should be given the same opportunity regardless of financial and socio economic status.
Message edited 4/28/2021 8:41:12 PM.
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| Posted 4/28/21 8:39 PM |
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MrsT809
LIF Adult
Member since 9/09 12167 total posts
Name:
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Universal Pre K vs Post High School Education
In my experience, upk is very much hands on and play based which is great for kids. Not everyone is willing or able to sit home doing crafts with their preschoolers. In addition to learning and socializing, it's an opportunity to identify kids that need extra services like speech and ot which is really helpful to do sooner than later.
As for higher education, I agree that it's not necessarily for everyone and some kids just aren't ready right after graduation. It becomes a continuation of the slacking off that happened in high school. I do think we should give everyone the opportunity to go but there need to be some requirements or expectations that are maintained.
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| Posted 4/28/21 9:04 PM |
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BFNY516
LIF Adult
Member since 7/20 1187 total posts
Name:
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Universal Pre K vs Post High School Education
I like the idea because it could lead to speech or learning disorders potentially being flagged earlier. .. and hopefully intervention ASAP.
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| Posted 4/29/21 2:51 AM |
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Mrs213
????????
Member since 2/09 18986 total posts
Name:
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Re: Universal Pre K vs Post High School Education
Posted by BFNY516
I like the idea because it could lead to speech or learning disorders potentially being flagged earlier. .. and hopefully intervention ASAP.
This is a good point. My kids didn't do UPK, but they went to kiddie academy from a young age because I needed full day care. At 3 they were teaching my son to write and he could not hold a pencil correctly. The teacher noticed many things that required intervention that I was oblivious to and brushed off as typical behavior. He was evaluated and got SEIT and OT services in pre-k.
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| Posted 4/29/21 7:09 AM |
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PitterPatter11
Baby Boy is Here!
Member since 5/11 7612 total posts
Name:
Momma <3
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Universal Pre K vs Post High School Education
Those who can not afford Nursery/Pre-K are often at a disadvantage their entire educational career. I fully support more funding for early education. Getting these children into a school based program will help them develop lifelong skills that enable them to be productive members of society. I know we like to think that parents are reading their children books every night and playing with them, but for many this is just not the case.
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| Posted 4/29/21 1:51 PM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54917 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Universal Pre K vs Post High School Education
Posted by PitterPatter11
Those who can not afford Nursery/Pre-K are often at a disadvantage their entire educational career. I fully support more funding for early education. Getting these children into a school based program will help them develop lifelong skills that enable them to be productive members of society. I know we like to think that parents are reading their children books every night and playing with them, but for many this is just not the case.
I agree. What my daughter learned in daycare and then the Pre K program through the daycare was invaluable. I feel like she is the student she is today, all these years later, because of it
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| Posted 4/29/21 3:08 PM |
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Momma2015
Mommax2
Member since 12/12 6655 total posts
Name:
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Re: Universal Pre K vs Post High School Education
My DD was in the UPK program and was in nursery before that in the same school. My sister also works there. There is a lot more learning going on in the nursery program. I don't know- state mandates make it very light on the school setting.
As a daycare mom, I'm 100% for it. I paid $12k for ONE child in daycare part time for a year. So many women have to make the choice of staying home with their kids or paying through the nose for daycare so the earlier they can get them care for free, the better.
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| Posted 4/29/21 4:17 PM |
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LuckyStar
LIF Adult
Member since 7/14 7272 total posts
Name:
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Re: Universal Pre K vs Post High School Education
Posted by Momma2015
My DD was in the UPK program and was in nursery before that in the same school. My sister also works there. There is a lot more learning going on in the nursery program. I don't know- state mandates make it very light on the school setting.
As a daycare mom, I'm 100% for it. I paid $12k for ONE child in daycare part time for a year. So many women have to make the choice of staying home with their kids or paying through the nose for daycare so the earlier they can get them care for free, the better.
My DD learned more in private pre-k than she does in public kindergarten.
ITA with your last point. No woman should ever be forced to give up her career due to childcare issues.
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| Posted 4/29/21 6:22 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9508 total posts
Name:
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Re: Universal Pre K vs Post High School Education
I would rather give aid to families in other ways that would support having one of the working parents be able to scale back on their career to stay home with children that aren't yet school age. I feel like the more one on one time a child can get with a caregiver, the better off they will be in the long run. They can get socialization in many other ways besides school. I feel like a tax credit for children under a certain age would help parents decide if they wanted to use it towards preschool/daycare, nanny or taking time off from work. UPK also feels like an unfair system in that many districts have a lottery and few people actually get in, when everyone is paying taxes into the district.
I think post high school education should be everyone's own responsibility.
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| Posted 4/29/21 10:12 PM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54917 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Universal Pre K vs Post High School Education
Posted by lululu
I would rather give aid to families in other ways that would support having one of the working parents be able to scale back on their career to stay home with children that aren't yet school age. I feel like the more one on one time a child can get with a caregiver, the better off they will be in the long run. They can get socialization in many other ways besides school. I feel like a tax credit for children under a certain age would help parents decide if they wanted to use it towards preschool/daycare, nanny or taking time off from work. UPK also feels like an unfair system in that many districts have a lottery and few people actually get in, when everyone is paying taxes into the district.
I think post high school education should be everyone's own responsibility.
Many parents have no desire to scale back their career. I know I certainly didn't. I don't care if someone would have paid me a full salary to stay home. I was in NO WAY cut out for that and I worked too hard to get where I was in my career. And to be honest, my daughter thrived in daycare, was potty trained by them early, learned so many things I would have never taught her myself or known how to teach her, smart as a whip to this day, no issue going to Kindergarten and being away from me etc. She didn't suffer at all from not being with a "care giver". We spent plenty of time with her and her day care "care givers" were the best gift we could have given her.
I would have sent her to daycare regardless. It was truly the best thing I did as a parent.
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| Posted 4/29/21 10:35 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9508 total posts
Name:
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Re: Universal Pre K vs Post High School Education
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by lululu
I would rather give aid to families in other ways that would support having one of the working parents be able to scale back on their career to stay home with children that aren't yet school age. I feel like the more one on one time a child can get with a caregiver, the better off they will be in the long run. They can get socialization in many other ways besides school. I feel like a tax credit for children under a certain age would help parents decide if they wanted to use it towards preschool/daycare, nanny or taking time off from work. UPK also feels like an unfair system in that many districts have a lottery and few people actually get in, when everyone is paying taxes into the district.
I think post high school education should be everyone's own responsibility.
Many parents have no desire to scale back their career. I know I certainly didn't. I don't care if someone would have paid me a full salary to stay home. I was in NO WAY cut out for that and I worked too hard to get where I was in my career. And to be honest, my daughter thrived in daycare, was potty trained by them early, learned so many things I would have never taught her myself or known how to teach her, smart as a whip to this day, no issue going to Kindergarten and being away from me etc. She didn't suffer at all from not being with a "care giver". We spent plenty of time with her and her day care "care givers" were the best gift we could have given her.
I would have sent her to daycare regardless. It was truly the best thing I did as a parent.
THat's why I think it should be a tax credit - that way you can decide what you want to do with the money - use it towards daycare, a babysitter, or scale back on career. To say it has to be used for Pre K is not great to me.
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| Posted 4/29/21 10:46 PM |
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LuckyStar
LIF Adult
Member since 7/14 7272 total posts
Name:
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Re: Universal Pre K vs Post High School Education
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by lululu
I would rather give aid to families in other ways that would support having one of the working parents be able to scale back on their career to stay home with children that aren't yet school age. I feel like the more one on one time a child can get with a caregiver, the better off they will be in the long run. They can get socialization in many other ways besides school. I feel like a tax credit for children under a certain age would help parents decide if they wanted to use it towards preschool/daycare, nanny or taking time off from work. UPK also feels like an unfair system in that many districts have a lottery and few people actually get in, when everyone is paying taxes into the district.
I think post high school education should be everyone's own responsibility.
Many parents have no desire to scale back their career. I know I certainly didn't. I don't care if someone would have paid me a full salary to stay home. I was in NO WAY cut out for that and I worked too hard to get where I was in my career. And to be honest, my daughter thrived in daycare, was potty trained by them early, learned so many things I would have never taught her myself or known how to teach her, smart as a whip to this day, no issue going to Kindergarten and being away from me etc. She didn't suffer at all from not being with a "care giver". We spent plenty of time with her and her day care "care givers" were the best gift we could have given her.
I would have sent her to daycare regardless. It was truly the best thing I did as a parent.
Absolutely.
Also, there is no such thing as temporary scaling back a career. I can’t imagine it’s very easy to be out of the workforce for years and then get hired into a position equal to what they left behind.
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| Posted 4/29/21 11:25 PM |
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KarenK122
The Journey is the Destination
Member since 5/05 4430 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Re: Universal Pre K vs Post High School Education
Posted by LuckyStar
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by lululu
I would rather give aid to families in other ways that would support having one of the working parents be able to scale back on their career to stay home with children that aren't yet school age. I feel like the more one on one time a child can get with a caregiver, the better off they will be in the long run. They can get socialization in many other ways besides school. I feel like a tax credit for children under a certain age would help parents decide if they wanted to use it towards preschool/daycare, nanny or taking time off from work. UPK also feels like an unfair system in that many districts have a lottery and few people actually get in, when everyone is paying taxes into the district.
I think post high school education should be everyone's own responsibility.
Many parents have no desire to scale back their career. I know I certainly didn't. I don't care if someone would have paid me a full salary to stay home. I was in NO WAY cut out for that and I worked too hard to get where I was in my career. And to be honest, my daughter thrived in daycare, was potty trained by them early, learned so many things I would have never taught her myself or known how to teach her, smart as a whip to this day, no issue going to Kindergarten and being away from me etc. She didn't suffer at all from not being with a "care giver". We spent plenty of time with her and her day care "care givers" were the best gift we could have given her.
I would have sent her to daycare regardless. It was truly the best thing I did as a parent.
Absolutely.
Also, there is no such thing as temporary scaling back a career. I can’t imagine it’s very easy to be out of the workforce for years and then get hired into a position equal to what they left behind.
I agree. While I did choose to stay home with my children and "retire" early, if I did not plan on staying home with them indefinitely, there would have been no way I could have reentered my career after 5 or 6 years off. Things change too drastically and I would have to start at a lower position that what I left.
That being said, I have no issue providing day care or preschool for those that need to work. It boosts the economy, gives parents a feeling of success and it gives the children a safe environment filled with socialization and learning. I do not support at all additional assistance after High School unless it comes with a caveat of volunteering or working to help the community for a period of time to "pay off" some of the funds given.
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| Posted 4/29/21 11:57 PM |
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LittleDiva
LIF Adult
Member since 9/11 1284 total posts
Name:
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Universal Pre K vs Post High School Education
There is a huge difference between daycare and upk. I like the idea of a tax credit so parent(s) can decide if they want to stay home or continue to work and afford daycare.
But here on Long Island we need to stop and look at WHY two parents HAVE to work in most households. High taxes? Daycare costs high (which has to do with all their overhead, rent, salaries, etc)? Parents are working minimum wage jobs because they couldn’t further their education or skills after high school? The fact that both parents have to work here is a big issue.
Message edited 4/30/2021 11:39:14 AM.
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| Posted 4/30/21 11:38 AM |
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Naturalmama
Love my boys!!
Member since 1/12 3548 total posts
Name:
Christine
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Universal Pre K vs Post High School Education
I am a huge proponent of UPK, but not in its current form on Long Island. NYC has a great model, every single 4 year old living in the 5 boroughs is eligible for free Pre-K. While you may not get your first choice school, you will get a seat at your 2nd or 3rd choice. I hope LI does something similar- many seats are not located in public schools, but in city funded classrooms housed in catholic schools, private nursery schools, and child care centers.
Yes, every child is eligible from the wealthiest to the poorest. But honestly, I think that creates more equity. Some arbitrary income cutoff makes no sense. 100k a year salary looks very different depending on where you live, how many children you have, if you're a single parent, etc. Families who deserve Pre-K may be shut out.
As for post secondary education, I support free community college and trade schools, but not full four year schools.
I also agree with above posters who said their are many mothers who WANT to work, myself included. I have zero desire to be a stay at home mom. If someone who wants to continue working is forced to stop because they can't afford child care, that's shameful. Something like UPK takes the burden off...in NYC you can get your child free child care starting at 3. That's two less years of paying a daycare bill. I'm all for that.
Message edited 4/30/2021 1:02:02 PM.
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| Posted 4/30/21 12:58 PM |
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LuckyStar
LIF Adult
Member since 7/14 7272 total posts
Name:
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Re: Universal Pre K vs Post High School Education
Posted by LittleDiva
There is a huge difference between daycare and upk. I like the idea of a tax credit so parent(s) can decide if they want to stay home or continue to work and afford daycare.
But here on Long Island we need to stop and look at WHY two parents HAVE to work in most households. High taxes? Daycare costs high (which has to do with all their overhead, rent, salaries, etc)? Parents are working minimum wage jobs because they couldn’t further their education or skills after high school? The fact that both parents have to work here is a big issue.
The high COL is a problem for everyone, not just parents.
It’s always very interesting to me when people (particularly on the right) will go all bootstraps on a child free person who needs a government handout because they lost their job or can’t work but are willing to give money to fully capable women who don’t want to work so they don’t have to.
It’s very clear that there are still people in this world who think women shouldn’t be anything but mothers and wives.
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| Posted 4/30/21 1:22 PM |
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PitterPatter11
Baby Boy is Here!
Member since 5/11 7612 total posts
Name:
Momma <3
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Re: Universal Pre K vs Post High School Education
Posted by lululu
I feel like the more one on one time a child can get with a caregiver, the better off they will be in the long run.
This an idealized way of thinking. Many people won't adequately devote one on one time with their children to help foster socialization and develop necessary skills for kindergarten. Again, we would like to think this is true, but it is not.
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| Posted 4/30/21 2:59 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9508 total posts
Name:
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Re: Universal Pre K vs Post High School Education
Posted by PitterPatter11
Posted by lululu
I feel like the more one on one time a child can get with a caregiver, the better off they will be in the long run.
This an idealized way of thinking. Many people won't adequately devote one on one time with their children to help foster socialization and develop necessary skills for kindergarten. Again, we would like to think this is true, but it is not.
Yes you are definitely right about that.
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| Posted 5/1/21 2:17 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9508 total posts
Name:
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Re: Universal Pre K vs Post High School Education
Posted by LuckyStar
Posted by LittleDiva
There is a huge difference between daycare and upk. I like the idea of a tax credit so parent(s) can decide if they want to stay home or continue to work and afford daycare.
But here on Long Island we need to stop and look at WHY two parents HAVE to work in most households. High taxes? Daycare costs high (which has to do with all their overhead, rent, salaries, etc)? Parents are working minimum wage jobs because they couldn’t further their education or skills after high school? The fact that both parents have to work here is a big issue.
The high COL is a problem for everyone, not just parents.
It’s always very interesting to me when people (particularly on the right) will go all bootstraps on a child free person who needs a government handout because they lost their job or can’t work but are willing to give money to fully capable women who don’t want to work so they don’t have to.
It’s very clear that there are still people in this world who think women shouldn’t be anything but mothers and wives.
I'm confused. This is a post about UPK so clearly it is addressing the needs of only those with children. Where was anything brought up about people who don't have children?
Also, I don't think anyone said that it needs to be the woman that stays home but it's sad that most people can't afford for either parent to stay home in the early years. And not that anyone should HAVE to stay home but most people don't even have the option. It's almost impossible to afford the COL without a dual income household.
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| Posted 5/1/21 2:21 PM |
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