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Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
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Merf99
LIF Adult
Member since 5/05 3380 total posts
Name:
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by itsbabytime
Since I started this thread I really want to clarify what exactly I was speaking to since my question seems to have gotten lost. I am NOT saying that children that are born at the end of the year that are behind their peers socially or academically or developmentally should never be held back. I am NOT questioning the mothers that have held their children back for these reasons. IN FACT, I feel that the situation I am complaining about makes it almost impossible (unless your child is advanced) to NOT hold them back!
The situation that is happening in my area more and more - is that parents are using this as a competitive tool - much like many previous posters have described. Are all red-shirted kids geniuses? Absolutely not. All I am saying is that if you have a September birthday child that is a smart, well adjusted, developmentally skilled child you should NOT be allowed to hold your child back simply to achieve a competitive advantage for them. Honestly, my child is doing great even being one of the youngest in the class he is almost the smartest and NONE of his teachers have ever said one thing about him being younger. This is NOT coming from that place. I feel more sorry for the kids and even his friends that are being red-shirted when they shouldn't be - that have to feel they are being held back when many of their friends are going forward. I also feel it is not fair into the future. Why shouldn't my DS be able to compete on a fair athletic playing field based on ability? Why should he not be the best he can be because he is playing against much older kids that were red-shirted.
Again, my point was only that they need to stop the ABUSE of this loop-hole that has started to become a trend. All I am asking is that they move the cut-off earlier and stick to it! Honestly, the end of year birthday moms should be the most happy about this!
And, still, only a few have answered my actual question and, honestly, I'm not sure how the best way is to go about initiating change because obviously it is a very sensitive subject and not coincidentally those parents that are doing this are the ones that are super involved in the school. Moreover, I'm sure the district loves it - they encourage it because generally the older a child is starting school the better they perform and the better it looks for the school
i totally agree with you!
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Posted 5/21/13 9:52 AM  |
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Merf99
LIF Adult
Member since 5/05 3380 total posts
Name:
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
And to answer you original question, i would think the superintendent would be the one to go to.
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| Posted 5/21/13 9:53 AM |
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Brandee
LIF Infant
Member since 12/07 233 total posts
Name:
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
I'm not sure what the superintendent can do. I think it up to each states Department of Education to change rhe cut off date. There are 42 states that have cut off's in Sept.. Like you I wish NY was one of them. My decision of redshirting would be so much easier as it would be made for me.
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| Posted 5/21/13 11:01 AM |
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Annie91606
Brotherly love
Member since 12/07 1816 total posts
Name:
Anne
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by Merf99
Posted by itsbabytime
Since I started this thread I really want to clarify what exactly I was speaking to since my question seems to have gotten lost. I am NOT saying that children that are born at the end of the year that are behind their peers socially or academically or developmentally should never be held back. I am NOT questioning the mothers that have held their children back for these reasons. IN FACT, I feel that the situation I am complaining about makes it almost impossible (unless your child is advanced) to NOT hold them back!
The situation that is happening in my area more and more - is that parents are using this as a competitive tool - much like many previous posters have described. Are all red-shirted kids geniuses? Absolutely not. All I am saying is that if you have a September birthday child that is a smart, well adjusted, developmentally skilled child you should NOT be allowed to hold your child back simply to achieve a competitive advantage for them. Honestly, my child is doing great even being one of the youngest in the class he is almost the smartest and NONE of his teachers have ever said one thing about him being younger. This is NOT coming from that place. I feel more sorry for the kids and even his friends that are being red-shirted when they shouldn't be - that have to feel they are being held back when many of their friends are going forward. I also feel it is not fair into the future. Why shouldn't my DS be able to compete on a fair athletic playing field based on ability? Why should he not be the best he can be because he is playing against much older kids that were red-shirted.
Again, my point was only that they need to stop the ABUSE of this loop-hole that has started to become a trend. All I am asking is that they move the cut-off earlier and stick to it! Honestly, the end of year birthday moms should be the most happy about this!
And, still, only a few have answered my actual question and, honestly, I'm not sure how the best way is to go about initiating change because obviously it is a very sensitive subject and not coincidentally those parents that are doing this are the ones that are super involved in the school. Moreover, I'm sure the district loves it - they encourage it because generally the older a child is starting school the better they perform and the better it looks for the school
i totally agree with you!
I agree with you too! Our cut off in VA is 9/30. It is the current trend to redshirt if your kid is born in June or after, particularly for males.
I admire my SIL for sending my nephew to K when his birthday is in late Sept. everyone told her to hold him back!
- If he was held back and did well, then it would always be in the back of her mind, is he really smart? Or is this just because we set the bar lower for him by not sending him with his peers?
- yes, he was a bit immature for his age. But guess what? Sending him to K and being with kids who were all older, he grew up a lot! Sitting still, completing tasks, etc. they figured staying in preschool with a bunch of 4 year olds would just prolong the immaturity.
-If a kid is athletically gifted, the time of year they were born doesn't matter. My DH and his best friend in HS got lacrosse scholarships. DH born in January- his friend in late November, 10 months younger and about 4 inches shorter. He was well coordinated and fast. Either you are or you arent
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| Posted 5/21/13 4:40 PM |
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Onemoretime
LIF Adult
Member since 9/12 1077 total posts
Name:
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by Annie91606
Posted by Merf99
Posted by itsbabytime
Since I started this thread I really want to clarify what exactly I was speaking to since my question seems to have gotten lost. I am NOT saying that children that are born at the end of the year that are behind their peers socially or academically or developmentally should never be held back. I am NOT questioning the mothers that have held their children back for these reasons. IN FACT, I feel that the situation I am complaining about makes it almost impossible (unless your child is advanced) to NOT hold them back!
The situation that is happening in my area more and more - is that parents are using this as a competitive tool - much like many previous posters have described. Are all red-shirted kids geniuses? Absolutely not. All I am saying is that if you have a September birthday child that is a smart, well adjusted, developmentally skilled child you should NOT be allowed to hold your child back simply to achieve a competitive advantage for them. Honestly, my child is doing great even being one of the youngest in the class he is almost the smartest and NONE of his teachers have ever said one thing about him being younger. This is NOT coming from that place. I feel more sorry for the kids and even his friends that are being red-shirted when they shouldn't be - that have to feel they are being held back when many of their friends are going forward. I also feel it is not fair into the future. Why shouldn't my DS be able to compete on a fair athletic playing field based on ability? Why should he not be the best he can be because he is playing against much older kids that were red-shirted.
Again, my point was only that they need to stop the ABUSE of this loop-hole that has started to become a trend. All I am asking is that they move the cut-off earlier and stick to it! Honestly, the end of year birthday moms should be the most happy about this!
And, still, only a few have answered my actual question and, honestly, I'm not sure how the best way is to go about initiating change because obviously it is a very sensitive subject and not coincidentally those parents that are doing this are the ones that are super involved in the school. Moreover, I'm sure the district loves it - they encourage it because generally the older a child is starting school the better they perform and the better it looks for the school
i totally agree with you!
I agree with you too! Our cut off in VA is 9/30. It is the current trend to redshirt if your kid is born in June or after, particularly for males.
I admire my SIL for sending my nephew to K when his birthday is in late Sept. everyone told her to hold him back!
- If he was held back and did well, then it would always be in the back of her mind, is he really smart? Or is this just because we set the bar lower for him by not sending him with his peers?
- yes, he was a bit immature for his age. But guess what? Sending him to K and being with kids who were all older, he grew up a lot! Sitting still, completing tasks, etc. they figured staying in preschool with a bunch of 4 year olds would just prolong the immaturity.
-If a kid is athletically gifted, the time of year they were born doesn't matter. My DH and his best friend in HS got lacrosse scholarships. DH born in January- his friend in late November, 10 months younger and about 4 inches shorter. He was well coordinated and fast. Either you are or you arent
ITA with you
A smart kid is a smart kid, end of story. They will always be at the top of the class , held back or not. The sports thing should go by age , not grade.
If you have an immature kid, they will always be that way.
I was an end of dec. kid in private. Lots of boys held back and red shirted.
My DS will start K at 4 years old. Red shirted kids are put in school with babies, of course they are going to be worse off!
All of this redshirting is going to backfire on the parents not doing it for legit reasons.
Message edited 5/21/2013 9:16:09 PM.
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| Posted 5/21/13 9:08 PM |
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Goobster
:)
Member since 5/07 27557 total posts
Name:
:)
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by Onemoretime
A smart kid is a smart kid, end of story. They will always be at the top of the class , held back or not. The sports thing should go by age , not grade.
If you have an immature kid, they will always be that way.
I was an end of dec. kid in private. Lots of boys held back and red shirted.
My DS will start K at 4 years old. Red shirted kids are put in school with babies, of course they are going to be worse off!
All of this redshirting is going to backfire on the parents not doing it for legit reasons.
I agree! The child I know who is being reshirted is being held back b/c the parents feel the child is "immature". Let me tell you, this child is BRIGHT. Very bright. Probably the brightest in the class IMO. Immature, yes, but oh my so smart. And not tiny. So now the child will be larger and smarter than all their peers next year. What good is it if you want your child to behave more mature, to put them with children a year or more younger than they are? Doesn't make sense to me! Seems counterproductive.
Message edited 5/21/2013 9:38:37 PM.
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| Posted 5/21/13 9:37 PM |
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Onemoretime
LIF Adult
Member since 9/12 1077 total posts
Name:
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by Goobster
Posted by Onemoretime
A smart kid is a smart kid, end of story. They will always be at the top of the class , held back or not. The sports thing should go by age , not grade.
If you have an immature kid, they will always be that way.
I was an end of dec. kid in private. Lots of boys held back and red shirted.
My DS will start K at 4 years old. Red shirted kids are put in school with babies, of course they are going to be worse off!
All of this redshirting is going to backfire on the parents not doing it for legit reasons.
I agree! The child I know who is being reshirted is being held back b/c the parents feel the child is "immature". Let me tell you, this child is BRIGHT. Very bright. Probably the brightest in the class IMO. Immature, yes, but oh my so smart. And not tiny. So now the child will be larger and smarter than all their peers next year. What good is it if you want your child to behave more mature, to put them with children a year or more younger than they are? Doesn't make sense to me! Seems counterproductive.
I completely agree with you. Every kid has a strength and weakness, it's life! Counterproductive is a good way to describe it
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| Posted 5/21/13 9:57 PM |
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Jax430
Hi!
Member since 5/05 18919 total posts
Name:
Jackie
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by Goobster
Posted by Onemoretime
A smart kid is a smart kid, end of story. They will always be at the top of the class , held back or not. The sports thing should go by age , not grade.
If you have an immature kid, they will always be that way.
I was an end of dec. kid in private. Lots of boys held back and red shirted.
My DS will start K at 4 years old. Red shirted kids are put in school with babies, of course they are going to be worse off!
All of this redshirting is going to backfire on the parents not doing it for legit reasons.
I agree! The child I know who is being reshirted is being held back b/c the parents feel the child is "immature". Let me tell you, this child is BRIGHT. Very bright. Probably the brightest in the class IMO. Immature, yes, but oh my so smart. And not tiny. So now the child will be larger and smarter than all their peers next year. What good is it if you want your child to behave more mature, to put them with children a year or more younger than they are? Doesn't make sense to me! Seems counterproductive.
I've been following this conversation with interest both as a new parent and a child/school psychologist. I have to agree with what was stated above. One of the things that I find in the preschool that I work at is that many "immature" kids (and mine are special needs) do better when they have the opportunity to interact with socially "higher" peers.
I haven't fully formed my opinion on red shirting, as it is honestly new to me (I work in a preschool in NYC. The kids move up with their birth year, period.), but my gut doesn't like it. Yes, there are specific reasons that a parent might want to hold their child back, and some of these reasons may be legitimate, but the "he's too young, too immature," does not make sense to me, and the sports rationale pisses me off. However, I would not argue with a parent whose late-birthday child has been in Pre-K and has not learned the pre-academic skills needed for kindergarten. I would also suggest that they seek additional help for their child as well, because there may be other things impacting the child's learning.
I was just contemplating my current caseload, as well as my previous students. Granted, this is a special education setting (mostly for emotional/behavioral needs), but I rarely see a correlation at kindergarten transition time between date of birth and readiness for kindergarten. There is individual variation of course, but I wouldn't say that the late birthdays as a whole are worse off than the earlier ones. When they start our program, I do see this, as we get some babies who enter our 2-year program at 2, then turn 3 in between September and December. By the time they graduate, at 4 or 5, as a whole, they are on equal footing. Again, this is a special ed setting, and the kids are going to a range of class types for kindergarten, but this has been my observation.
Message edited 5/22/2013 12:07:26 PM.
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| Posted 5/22/13 11:48 AM |
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CrankyPants
I'm cranky
Member since 7/06 18178 total posts
Name:
Mama Cranky
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by Jax430
Posted by Goobster
Posted by Onemoretime
A smart kid is a smart kid, end of story. They will always be at the top of the class , held back or not. The sports thing should go by age , not grade.
If you have an immature kid, they will always be that way.
I was an end of dec. kid in private. Lots of boys held back and red shirted.
My DS will start K at 4 years old. Red shirted kids are put in school with babies, of course they are going to be worse off!
All of this redshirting is going to backfire on the parents not doing it for legit reasons.
I agree! The child I know who is being reshirted is being held back b/c the parents feel the child is "immature". Let me tell you, this child is BRIGHT. Very bright. Probably the brightest in the class IMO. Immature, yes, but oh my so smart. And not tiny. So now the child will be larger and smarter than all their peers next year. What good is it if you want your child to behave more mature, to put them with children a year or more younger than they are? Doesn't make sense to me! Seems counterproductive.
I've been following this conversation with interest both as a new parent and a child/school psychologist. I have to agree with what was stated above. One of the things that I find in the preschool that I work at is that many "immature" kids (and mine are special needs) do better when they have the opportunity to interact with socially "higher" peers.
I haven't fully formed my opinion on red shirting, as it is honestly new to me (I work in a preschool in NYC. The kids move up with their birth year, period.), but my gut doesn't like it. Yes, there are specific reasons that a parent might want to hold their child back, and some of these reasons may be legitimate, but the "he's too young, too immature," does not make sense to me, and the sports rationale pisses me off. However, I would not argue with a parent whose late-birthday child has been in Pre-K and has not learned the pre-academic skills needed for kindergarten. I would also suggest that they seek additional help for their child as well, because there may be other things impacting the child's learning.
I was just contemplating my current caseload, as well as my previous students. Granted, this is a special education setting (mostly for emotional/behavioral needs), but I rarely see a correlation at kindergarten transition time between date of birth and readiness for kindergarten. There is individual variation of course, but I wouldn't say that the late birthdays as a whole are worse off than the earlier ones. When they start our program, I do see this, as we get some babies who enter at 2, then turn 3 in between September and December. By the time they graduate, at 4 or 5, as a whole, they are on equal footing. Again, this is a special ed setting, and the kids are going to a range of class types for kindergarten, but this has been my observation.
I agree with this. My 3 year old has a few delays, the most concerning is speech. He goes to daycare part time. We have always been told by all of his therapists that we need to make sure that he stays with his peer groups when they move up classes. He needs to be challenged and his peer group provide that more than younger kids can. I am happy he has a later birthday but I woud send him on time regardless.
I understand the desire to hold back, even with my 5 year old-K was hard for her, she isdoing fine but it was tough and she is the absolute youngest in her class since our cutoff is the end of August. However, she held her own.
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| Posted 5/22/13 12:00 PM |
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Sassyz75
Turning a new page
Member since 5/05 9731 total posts
Name:
Dina
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
I was ALWAYS the youngest... I never considered it a problem.. and I never had a problem with it.
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| Posted 5/22/13 5:00 PM |
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