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Absolutely sick over this NYPD shooting/murder
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JME78
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Re: Absolutely sick over this NYPD shooting/murder
Giuliani is disgusting.
Spreading lies and using a tragedy to further his own political agenda. Typical.
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Posted 12/22/14 9:26 AM  |
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Goobster
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Re: Absolutely sick over this NYPD shooting/murder
Posted by JME78
Giuliani is disgusting.
Spreading lies and using a tragedy to further his own political agenda. Typical.
What's he lying about?
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| Posted 12/22/14 9:35 AM |
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MrsA1012
love my little girl !
Member since 9/10 5777 total posts
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Re: Absolutely sick over this NYPD shooting/murder
Posted by sometimesmommy
Posted by justbeachy
Curious..
As we become angrier and more divided, it got me thinking about the future....
For those who support the protests- what is your desired outcome/goal? I hear buzz words like 'reform' and 'consequences' but I'd love to understand what that looks like in reality.
We pride ourselves - as a country - on having due process. We created a system where we have a jury decide the outcome - not a single, potentially partial judge. So in these scenarios, when an indictment isn't handed down because a jury of peers didn't find enough evidence to move ahead, what are protesters suggesting should be done to avoid similar fates down the road? How would evidence be assessed? Cases be judged? Am I missing the mark here?
What more can be done to weed out bad apples of the police department? What reforms need to happen? Sensitivity training? I can't envision what protesters are looking for in terms of 'training officers.'
Change, in abstraction is great. As a concept, it's sexy. It's rose colored and exciting. It got our President elected. It's easy to yell loudly and march across a city and decry the injustices.
But then what?
I dont have the answers but clearly see the system is broken. What we need is open, transparent dialogue and a system where when incidents happen that a truly neutral agency spearheads an investigation. Also having cops of a different race patrolling in a community needs to change-there needs to be diversity because based on what I am hearing, many feel that having predominantly caucasian cops in a black neighborhood is challenging, not just for the officer but the very people that need protecting so that needs to change. I really have to sit and give it thought but as I said open dialogue with the people capable of instituting change-the first task is to identify who would make up said group.
You make some valid points and I don't have a problem with an open mindedness to reforms,if needed. However, I don't understand how putting more minority cops in minority high crime areas will change anything. If a cop is black he needs to uphold the law in the same way a white cop would. He cannot be more lenient or behave differently. A black cop would have had to call out a Michael Brown or an Eric Garner. Also, do we really think a gang banger or other criminal cares what race the cop is. Are they going to say , "gee , he's black. I feel more understood, I think I will behave differently. It is also a slippery slope. What's to then say, we feel uncomfortable having a black cop in a majority white area? Where does this go? The only benefit I can see is that if there is an incident and both the civilian and the cop are black , no one can blame race. Finally,I think a problem with all these discussions, is that most of the people on this site live in safe, suburban , majority white neighborhoods and don't have a true understanding of what cops really face in these dangerous , inner city areas.I don't pretend to have any first hand experience,but from my contact with those that do, I think the lawlessness and Wild West mentality that is pervasive in these areas would be hard for us to understand. It is an enormous challenge to an officer of any color to keep civilians/themsleves safe in this kind of environment. In neighborhoods with 200 active gangs ,you don't know who is armed and who will shoot you for no reason. That would make any human being more frightened/ on edge and must quicker to act with force. It's a very hard situation.
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| Posted 12/22/14 9:38 AM |
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JME78
LIF Adult
Member since 11/09 3672 total posts
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Re: Absolutely sick over this NYPD shooting/murder
Posted by Goobster
Posted by JME78
Giuliani is disgusting.
Spreading lies and using a tragedy to further his own political agenda. Typical.
"We've had four months of propaganda, starting with the president, that everybody should hate the police"
There are zero quotes that actually support his statements.
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| Posted 12/22/14 9:39 AM |
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gina409
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Member since 12/09 27635 total posts
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Re: Absolutely sick over this NYPD shooting/murder
Posted by MrsA1012
Posted by sometimesmommy
Posted by justbeachy
Curious..
As we become angrier and more divided, it got me thinking about the future....
For those who support the protests- what is your desired outcome/goal? I hear buzz words like 'reform' and 'consequences' but I'd love to understand what that looks like in reality.
We pride ourselves - as a country - on having due process. We created a system where we have a jury decide the outcome - not a single, potentially partial judge. So in these scenarios, when an indictment isn't handed down because a jury of peers didn't find enough evidence to move ahead, what are protesters suggesting should be done to avoid similar fates down the road? How would evidence be assessed? Cases be judged? Am I missing the mark here?
What more can be done to weed out bad apples of the police department? What reforms need to happen? Sensitivity training? I can't envision what protesters are looking for in terms of 'training officers.'
Change, in abstraction is great. As a concept, it's sexy. It's rose colored and exciting. It got our President elected. It's easy to yell loudly and march across a city and decry the injustices.
But then what?
I dont have the answers but clearly see the system is broken. What we need is open, transparent dialogue and a system where when incidents happen that a truly neutral agency spearheads an investigation. Also having cops of a different race patrolling in a community needs to change-there needs to be diversity because based on what I am hearing, many feel that having predominantly caucasian cops in a black neighborhood is challenging, not just for the officer but the very people that need protecting so that needs to change. I really have to sit and give it thought but as I said open dialogue with the people capable of instituting change-the first task is to identify who would make up said group.
You make some valid points and I don't have a problem with an open mindedness to reforms,if needed. However, I don't understand how putting more minority cops in minority high crime areas will change anything. If a cop is black he needs to uphold the law in the same way a white cop would. He cannot be more lenient or behave differently. A black cop would have had to call out a Michael Brown or an Eric Garner. Also, do we really think a gang banger or other criminal cares what race the cop is. Are they going to say , "gee , he's black. I feel more understood, I think I will behave differently. It is also a slippery slope. What's to then say, we feel uncomfortable having a black cop in a majority white area? Where does this go? The only benefit I can see is that if there is an incident and both the civilian and the cop are black , no one can blame race. Finally,I think a problem with all these discussions, is that most of the people on this site live in safe, suburban , majority white neighborhoods and don't have a true understanding of what cops really face in these dangerous , inner city areas.I don't pretend to have any first hand experience,but from my contact with those that do, I think the lawlessness and Wild West mentality that is pervasive in these areas would be hard for us to understand. It is an enormous challenge to an officer of any color to keep civilians/themsleves safe in this kind of environment. In neighborhoods with 200 active gangs ,you don't know who is armed and who will shoot you for no reason. That would make any human being more frightened/ on edge and must quicker to act with force. It's a very hard situation.
I read somewhere the chief officer who sent cops to bodega was African American and also the highest commanding officer on scene was as well
I agree with you 100 percent. 99 percent of us have no idea what it's like to live in these are as and be a cop in there areas
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| Posted 12/22/14 9:43 AM |
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Goobster
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Member since 5/07 27557 total posts
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:)
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Re: Absolutely sick over this NYPD shooting/murder
Posted by MrsA1012
Posted by sometimesmommy
Posted by justbeachy
Curious..
As we become angrier and more divided, it got me thinking about the future....
For those who support the protests- what is your desired outcome/goal? I hear buzz words like 'reform' and 'consequences' but I'd love to understand what that looks like in reality.
We pride ourselves - as a country - on having due process. We created a system where we have a jury decide the outcome - not a single, potentially partial judge. So in these scenarios, when an indictment isn't handed down because a jury of peers didn't find enough evidence to move ahead, what are protesters suggesting should be done to avoid similar fates down the road? How would evidence be assessed? Cases be judged? Am I missing the mark here?
What more can be done to weed out bad apples of the police department? What reforms need to happen? Sensitivity training? I can't envision what protesters are looking for in terms of 'training officers.'
Change, in abstraction is great. As a concept, it's sexy. It's rose colored and exciting. It got our President elected. It's easy to yell loudly and march across a city and decry the injustices.
But then what?
I dont have the answers but clearly see the system is broken. What we need is open, transparent dialogue and a system where when incidents happen that a truly neutral agency spearheads an investigation. Also having cops of a different race patrolling in a community needs to change-there needs to be diversity because based on what I am hearing, many feel that having predominantly caucasian cops in a black neighborhood is challenging, not just for the officer but the very people that need protecting so that needs to change. I really have to sit and give it thought but as I said open dialogue with the people capable of instituting change-the first task is to identify who would make up said group.
You make some valid points and I don't have a problem with an open mindedness to reforms,if needed. However, I don't understand how putting more minority cops in minority high crime areas will change anything. If a cop is black he needs to uphold the law in the same way a white cop would. He cannot be more lenient or behave differently. A black cop would have had to call out a Michael Brown or an Eric Garner. Also, do we really think a gang banger or other criminal cares what race the cop is. Are they going to say , "gee , he's black. I feel more understood, I think I will behave differently. It is also a slippery slope. What's to then say, we feel uncomfortable having a black cop in a majority white area? Where does this go? The only benefit I can see is that if there is an incident and both the civilian and the cop are black , no one can blame race. Finally,I think a problem with all these discussions, is that most of the people on this site live in safe, suburban , majority white neighborhoods and don't have a true understanding of what cops really face in these dangerous , inner city areas.I don't pretend to have any first hand experience,but from my contact with those that do, I think the lawlessness and Wild West mentality that is pervasive in these areas would be hard for us to understand. It is an enormous challenge to an officer of any color to keep civilians/themsleves safe in this kind of environment. In neighborhoods with 200 active gangs ,you don't know who is armed and who will shoot you for no reason. That would make any human being more frightened/ on edge and must quicker to act with force. It's a very hard situation.
ITA This is what I was thinking. So basically you think a) the black communities would have more respect for black cops b)whites ARE being racist. Because the issue is lack of respect for authority when an officer tries to arrest or interrogate a civilian.
Change needs to come from within the communities, and once again, these troublemaking rallies have not helped stress the REAL issue and that is, as a CIVILIAN TO HAVE RESPECT FOR THE LAW. But oh right, we ARE talking about criminals (brown and garner, albeit a petty crime he was committing). And since they were criminals, pretty easy to understand why they resisted arrest and had no respect for the police.
Still boggles my mind ALL of this precipitated from 2CRIMINALS RESISTING arrest and bucking back at AUTHORITY, the POLICE.
If it was a black cop involved in these incidents, I highly doubt it would have changed ANYTHING other than no one could cry racism.
Message edited 12/22/2014 9:48:13 AM.
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| Posted 12/22/14 9:45 AM |
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DaniJude
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Re: Absolutely sick over this NYPD shooting/murder
First story that popped up on Yahoo.com this morning...
In wake of police killings, New York officers on edge
By Michelle Conlin
(Reuters) - On December 13, as thousands of protesters mobbed the New York streets, Yuseff Hamm, an NYPD police officer, was monitoring the demonstrations from a mobile command unit near the Brooklyn Bridge. As the protest drew near, Hamm and his fellow officers could hear the chants of the noisy throngs: “What do we want? Dead cops. When do we want them? Now.”
In his 13 years on the force, Hamm had never encountered demonstrators shouting out anything like that.
Nor had he ever seen anything like what happened one week later, on Saturday: a lone gunman, hours after warning on Instagram that he planned an attack in retribution for U.S. police killings of black men, gunned down two NYPD officers as they sat in a cruiser in broad daylight near a bustling intersection in Bedford Stuyvesant, Brooklyn.
The officers, who were Hispanic and Asian-American, were killed by a 28-year-old black man, Ismaaiyl Brinsley. He had traveled to New York from Baltimore, where he had earlier shot and wounded his girlfriend. Brinsley fled and later used his silver semi-automatic handgun to take his own life by shooting himself in the head on a crowded subway platform.
“When you have a chant going on like that, and no one addresses it, and then a week later, these killings come to fruition, I’m shaken,” said Hamm, an African American, whose usual stint is in the conditions unit in the 106th precinct in Queens. “The rhetoric that’s going around, left unchecked, is very dangerous, and it invites people to do crazy nonsense.”
The killing of the two police officers Saturday comes at a time when police in New York already feel vulnerable. A wave of national protests has targeted them for what demonstrators have characterized as their “aggressive” and “extreme” tactics. That includes the controversial “stop and frisk” program, in which thousands of black and Latino men were targeted for no ostensible reason other than the color of their skin.
Though the protests have been largely peaceful, tensions have been escalating, with people brandishing placards reading “NYPD KKK,” “NYPD Has Blood on Their Hands” and “Speak Up Get Shot.”
Defenders of the actions, however, say that drawing a connection between the protests and the police killings would be “misleading.”
One of the movements leaders, the Missouri-based Ferguson Action Network, said in a statement: “Millions have stood together in acts of non-violent civil disobedience, one of the cornerstones of our democracy. It is irresponsible to draw connections between this movement and the actions of a troubled man who took the lives of these officers and attempted to take the life of his ex-partner, before ultimately taking his own.”
The nationwide wave of protests, which have snarled traffic, clogged bridges and brought commerce to a standstill, started in late November after a Missouri grand jury declined to indict a white police officer in the killing of unarmed black teen Michael Brown. A week later, a New York grand jury also declined to indict a white officer in the chokehold death of Eric Garner, an unarmed, 43-year-old black father of six suspected of peddling loose, untaxed cigarettes.
In the wake of those decisions, New York Mayor Bill de Blasio, whose wife Chirlane is African American, said in a press conference that the couple has had to have painful conversations with their biracial son, Dante, about “how to take special care with any encounter he may have with police officers.”
Police organizations immediately blasted the mayor’s comments as anti-cop. On Saturday, Patrolmen’s Benevolent Association President Patrick Lynch said, “The blood on the hands starts on the steps of City Hall, in the office of the mayor.” That same night, as the Mayor arrived at the Brooklyn hospital where the two dead officers were taken, a line of patrolmen turned their backs on him, forming a line of blue in what observers called a dramatic show of disrespect.
During his campaign, de Blasio criticized NYPD tactics like “stop and frisk” and the “broken windows” theory of policing, which focuses on cracking down on small crimes to prevent bigger ones. Both strategies flourished under de Blasio’s predecessors, Rudy Giuliani and Mike Bloomberg. Both Mayors oversaw a record drop in crime which transformed New York from the former murder capital of the world into the safest big city in America—and the preferred playground of the global elite.
But now, police say the tension between the NYPD and the Mayor’s Office at City Hall is the worst it has been in recent memory.
On Sunday, police officers said that more and more of them were signing a new petition asking de Blasio not to attend their funerals if they should die in the line of duty.
“This is a very, very volatile time,” said a 15-year narcotics vet who asked not to be named because police officers are prohibited from speaking with the press without department permission. “Any situation on either side in this city could really set things off. It really could."
Message edited 12/22/2014 9:48:24 AM.
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| Posted 12/22/14 9:47 AM |
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Goobster
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Member since 5/07 27557 total posts
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Re: Absolutely sick over this NYPD shooting/murder
Posted by DaniRella
First story that popped up on Yahoo.com this morning...
In wake of police killings, New York officers on edge
By Michelle Conlin
(Reuters) - On December 13, as thousands of protesters mobbed the New York streets, Yuseff Hamm, an NYPD police officer, was monitoring the demonstrations from a mobile command unit near the Brooklyn Bridge. As the protest drew near, Hamm and his fellow officers could hear the chants of the noisy throngs: “What do we want? Dead cops. When do we want them? Now.”
In his 13 years on the force, Hamm had never encountered demonstrators shouting out anything like that.
Nor had he ever seen anything like what happened one week later, on Saturday: a lone gunman, hours after warning on Instagram that he planned an attack in retribution for U.S. police killings of black men, gunned down two NYPD officers as they sat in a cruiser in broad daylight near a bustling intersection in Bedford Stuyvesant, Brooklyn.
The officers, who were Hispanic and Asian-American, were killed by a 28-year-old black man, Ismaaiyl Brinsley. He had traveled to New York from Baltimore, where he had earlier shot and wounded his girlfriend. Brinsley fled and later used his silver semi-automatic handgun to take his own life by shooting himself in the head on a crowded subway platform.
“When you have a chant going on like that, and no one addresses it, and then a week later, these killings come to fruition, I’m shaken,” said Hamm, an African American, whose usual stint is in the conditions unit in the 106th precinct in Queens. “The rhetoric that’s going around, left unchecked, is very dangerous, and it invites people to do crazy nonsense.”
The killing of the two police officers Saturday comes at a time when police in New York already feel vulnerable. A wave of national protests has targeted them for what demonstrators have characterized as their “aggressive” and “extreme” tactics. That includes the controversial “stop and frisk” program, in which thousands of black and Latino men were targeted for no ostensible reason other than the color of their skin.
Though the protests have been largely peaceful, tensions have been escalating, with people brandishing placards reading “NYPD KKK,” “NYPD Has Blood on Their Hands” and “Speak Up Get Shot.”
Defenders of the actions, however, say that drawing a connection between the protests and the police killings would be “misleading.”
One of the movements leaders, the Missouri-based Ferguson Action Network, said in a statement: “Millions have stood together in acts of non-violent civil disobedience, one of the cornerstones of our democracy. It is irresponsible to draw connections between this movement and the actions of a troubled man who took the lives of these officers and attempted to take the life of his ex-partner, before ultimately taking his own.”
The nationwide wave of protests, which have snarled traffic, clogged bridges and brought commerce to a standstill, started in late November after a Missouri grand jury declined to indict a white police officer in the killing of unarmed black teen Michael Brown. A week later, a New York grand jury also declined to indict a white officer in the chokehold death of Eric Garner, an unarmed, 43-year-old black father of six suspected of peddling loose, untaxed cigarettes.
In the wake of those decisions, New York Mayor Bill de Blasio, whose wife Chirlane is African American, said in a press conference that the couple has had to have painful conversations with their biracial son, Dante, about “how to take special care with any encounter he may have with police officers.”
Police organizations immediately blasted the mayor’s comments as anti-cop. On Saturday, Patrolmen’s Benevolent Association President Patrick Lynch said, “The blood on the hands starts on the steps of City Hall, in the office of the mayor.” That same night, as the Mayor arrived at the Brooklyn hospital where the two dead officers were taken, a line of patrolmen turned their backs on him, forming a line of blue in what observers called a dramatic show of disrespect.
During his campaign, de Blasio criticized NYPD tactics like “stop and frisk” and the “broken windows” theory of policing, which focuses on cracking down on small crimes to prevent bigger ones. Both strategies flourished under de Blasio’s predecessors, Rudy Giuliani and Mike Bloomberg. Both Mayors oversaw a record drop in crime which transformed New York from the former murder capital of the world into the safest big city in America—and the preferred playground of the global elite.
But now, police say the tension between the NYPD and the Mayor’s Office at City Hall is the worst it has been in recent memory.
On Sunday, police officers said that more and more of them were signing a new petition asking de Blasio not to attend their funerals if they should die in the line of duty.
“This is a very, very volatile time,” said a 15-year narcotics vet who asked not to be named because police officers are prohibited from speaking with the press without department permission. “Any situation on either side in this city could really set things off. It really could."
Deblasio is the problem here, absolutely let things get out of control. He does have to protect "dante". Talk about being racist.
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| Posted 12/22/14 9:51 AM |
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Dani
Life is about choices.
Member since 5/05 6532 total posts
Name:
Dani
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Re: Absolutely sick over this NYPD shooting/murder
Posted by Leb
If you choose to drive drunk, like so many people do, you may not get caught the first time, or even the second or third. However you have to know that eventually it may catch up to you and you may kill yourself or worse someone else. Did you deserve to die? No. But oh well you shouldn't have driven drunk! Do I feel bad for your family that now has to suffer bc you made the foolish decision to drive drunk. Yes.
And that's how I feel about the criminals that resist arrest. These cops have a split second to make a decision. Did they deserve to die? Of course not. But we can all agree resisting arrest in a very very small precent can have this outcome! And FYI as an avid tv watcher of the show cops over the years every single criminal cries they can't breathe. I know this guy was selling cigarettes which is such an annoying minor offense BUT he was in their radar for doing this for a while. He did not deserve to die, it was an accident. That cop didn't wake up and say I am going to strangle a black person today for a minor offense!
And also all lives are not equal. My dd's life is more important than any child molester that even thinks about looking at her in an inappropriate way. My life is more important than a rapist murderer who wants to rape and kill me. Casey Anthony's life isn't as important as her sweet daughter that she murdered. Stop breaking the law if you don't want to get into trouble!!!
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| Posted 12/22/14 9:53 AM |
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blumachaya
LIF Infant
Member since 10/08 113 total posts
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Absolutely sick over this NYPD shooting/murder
I just feel so sorry for the people in these communities, the cops are instructed by the PBA to not make any arrests and respond with 2 units to every call, virtually cutting the force in half! My son in law is a cop in the neighboring precinct and my family is beyond scared for him! It's the people of these neighborhoods that will suffer when the cops hands are tied trying to keep law and order. Just pray that all the men and women who go out every day and risk their lives to protect the citizens they serve will return home to their families!
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| Posted 12/22/14 9:56 AM |
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JME78
LIF Adult
Member since 11/09 3672 total posts
Name:
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Re: Absolutely sick over this NYPD shooting/murder
Posted by Goobster
Deblasio is the problem here, absolutely let things get out of control. He does have to protect "dante". Talk about being racist.
What did DiBlasio say that caused this man to kill a woman in MD?
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| Posted 12/22/14 10:01 AM |
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MrsA1012
love my little girl !
Member since 9/10 5777 total posts
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Me
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Re: Absolutely sick over this NYPD shooting/murder
Posted by blumachaya
I just feel so sorry for the people in these communities, the cops are instructed by the PBA to not make any arrests and respond with 2 units to every call, virtually cutting the force in half! My son in law is a cop in the neighboring precinct and my family is beyond scared for him! It's the people of these neighborhoods that will suffer when the cops hands are tied trying to keep law and order. Just pray that all the men and women who go out every day and risk their lives to protect the citizens they serve will return home to their families!
Exactly. So many innocent people will suffer and these dangerous areas will get worse. I just hope Ny doesn't return to the way things were in the pre Guliani / Dinkins era. I'm glad i live in a different state now.
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| Posted 12/22/14 10:05 AM |
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Goobster
:)
Member since 5/07 27557 total posts
Name:
:)
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Re: Absolutely sick over this NYPD shooting/murder
Posted by JME78
Posted by Goobster
Deblasio is the problem here, absolutely let things get out of control. He does have to protect "dante". Talk about being racist.
What did DiBlasio say that caused this man to kill a woman in MD?
That was a personal issue I am sure that this man killed this woman. He then personalized this whole attack on police, which Deblasio did not HELP nor protect the police from with the rallies and chants of DEAD cops, cops getting spit on, attacked during riots, etc. He allowed riots to get out of control. Notice how the man targeted NY cops, b/c here in NY was the Garner case. Which Deblasio should have calmed the public and controlled the protests and events during the protests.
How can the public be allowed to chant while walking through NYC streets, what do we want? DEAD COPS?
THIS IS THE LAW, OFFICERS OF THE LAW< we are talking about. And the police were allowed to be mistreated, disrespected and it absolutely set off a chain of events.
Message edited 12/22/2014 10:09:44 AM.
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| Posted 12/22/14 10:06 AM |
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Goobster
:)
Member since 5/07 27557 total posts
Name:
:)
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Re: Absolutely sick over this NYPD shooting/murder
Posted by blumachaya
I just feel so sorry for the people in these communities, the cops are instructed by the PBA to not make any arrests and respond with 2 units to every call, virtually cutting the force in half! My son in law is a cop in the neighboring precinct and my family is beyond scared for him! It's the people of these neighborhoods that will suffer when the cops hands are tied trying to keep law and order. Just pray that all the men and women who go out every day and risk their lives to protect the citizens they serve will return home to their families!
Well everyone who protested can pat themselves on the back now. Well done. The cops will leave criminals alone now.
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| Posted 12/22/14 10:10 AM |
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DaniJude
You're My Home <3
Member since 11/06 14815 total posts
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Danielle
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Re: Absolutely sick over this NYPD shooting/murder
Wow, and now this story just popped up first on Yahoo with the one I posted prior to that appearing second...
NYC's Mayor Bill de Blasio weathers blowback on police reform after cop slayings,
Unions say 'blood' is on mayor’s hands
By: Liz Goodwin
(Associated Press) In the wake of two cop slayings in Brooklyn this weekend, police unions and their allies are blaming recent calls to bring more accountability to America’s police forces from New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio and the Obama administration.
Rafael Ramos, 40, and Wenjian Liu, 32, were shot dead while sitting in their patrol car Saturday afternoon by a man who officials say was out for revenge for the deaths of Eric Garner in Staten Island and Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo. The men’s deaths at the hands of police have caused nationwide protests against police brutality and sparked calls for reform from de Blasio and the Obama administration. These protests intensified after two separate grand juries cleared the policemen of charges of wrongdoing in both cases.
New York City and national police unions quickly blamed the push for reform — and certain politicians’ rhetoric — for inflaming tensions toward police. De Blasio said after the Staten Island grand jury declined to bring charges against the police officer in the Garner case earlier this month that it was a “painful day” for many New Yorkers, leaving some police officers feeling thrown under the bus.
The mayor strongly condemned the police slayings at a press conference Saturday night. As he walked into Woodhull Hospital in Brooklyn, dozens of NYPD police at the event were captured on video silently turning their backs to him in protest.
“When a police officer is murdered, it tears at the foundation of our society,” a somber-looking de Blasio said. “It is an attack on all of us. It’s an attack on everything we hold dear. We depend on our police to protect us against forces of criminality and evil. They are a foundation of our society, and when they are attacked, it is an attack on the very concept of decency.”
Later, de Blasio urged New Yorkers to call 911 if they hear someone threatening to kill cops, in order to “protect our entire civilization.”
But police unions were still angry at de Blasio after his speech. They’ve criticized him for meeting with protest leaders in recent days. They also circulated a petition for police officers to sign if they do not want the mayor to attend their funeral should they die in the line of duty. (It’s unclear if either of the slain officers had signed it.)
“There is blood on many hands, from those that incited violence under the guise of protest to try to tear down what police officers do every day,” Patrick Lynch, the head of the Patrolmen’s Benevolent Association union, told reporters after de Blasio spoke Saturday night. “That blood on the hands starts on the steps of city hall in the office of the mayor.”
Lynch said that after the funerals of the two slain officers, “those who allowed this to happen will be held accountable.” Another union, the Sergeants Benevolent Association, echoed Lynch, tweeting that the “blood of 2 executed police officers is on the hands of Mayor de Blasio.”
Former NYPD Commissioner Ray Kelly poured on the criticism on Sunday morning in an interview with ABC News, saying de Blasio ran “an antipolice campaign.” "Quite frankly the mayor ran an antipolice campaign last year when he ran for mayor, so there’s a bit of a residue," he said.
De Blasio was elected to office after campaigning fiercely against the NYPD’s “stop and frisk” program, in which tens of thousands of mostly black and Latino men were stopped and searched by police without probable cause. As a candidate, de Blasio ran an ad saying he worried his own biracial son would be a target of stop and frisk because of his race. De Blasio reined in stop and frisk once elected, but declined to support legislation to completely ban it.
The New York City mayor is just one of many public officials who have pushed for policing reforms after several high-profile shootings sparked national protests and outrage. Attorney General Eric Holder and President Obama have called for better relationships between police and communities of color in recent weeks, and expressed dismay at the “militarized” response to protests in Ferguson by police last summer.
The Justice Department plans to fund 50,000 body cameras for police as one way to increase accountability and build trust. De Blasio recently outfitted several dozen police officers with the cameras as part of a body camera pilot program.
Politicians are feeling pressure to make changes as thousands of Americans continue to protest what they believe is a culture of excessive force among some police departments — force that is often directed at poor minority men. It’s unclear if these two policemen’s murders will slow the pace of these reforms or affect the ongoing anti-police-brutality protests in many American cities in the coming weeks.
Former New York Gov. George Pataki tweeted that both de Blasio and Attorney General Eric Holder's "rhetoric" on police were to blame for the deaths, linking the mayor to the Obama administration.
“The poorly thought out and intemperate statements made by public figures in the aftermath of Ferguson could well be a triggering factor in unstable folks feeling that they’re empowered to commit violent acts,” Jim Pasco, the executive director of the National Fraternal Order of Police, told Yahoo News.
At Saturday’s press conference, NYPD Commissioner Bill Bratton also appeared to implicate the recent police protests in the crime: "Let's face it. There's been, not just in New York, but throughout the country, a very strong, antipolice, anti-criminal-justice system, anti-societal set of initiatives underway,” Bratton said. “One of these unfortunate aspects, sometimes, is that some people get caught up in the directions they should not."
Police leaders say it’s not their job alone to improve community relations.
“I hope people will begin to understand that it’s not just a matter of restoring community faith in police, it’s a matter of restoring police faith in community,” Pasco said, referencing recent calls for police to repair their connections with minority communities. “This is exactly the kind of thing that leads police officers to be defensive and to fear for their lives as they try to go about protecting people in the poorest parts of the country.”
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| Posted 12/22/14 10:37 AM |
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Pray4Baby2010
<3 Cutest Giants Fan
Member since 10/09 5796 total posts
Name:
MB
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Re: Absolutely sick over this NYPD shooting/murder
Posted by Goobster
Posted by blumachaya
I just feel so sorry for the people in these communities, the cops are instructed by the PBA to not make any arrests and respond with 2 units to every call, virtually cutting the force in half! My son in law is a cop in the neighboring precinct and my family is beyond scared for him! It's the people of these neighborhoods that will suffer when the cops hands are tied trying to keep law and order. Just pray that all the men and women who go out every day and risk their lives to protect the citizens they serve will return home to their families!
Well everyone who protested can pat themselves on the back now. Well done. The cops will leave criminals alone now.
Why are they planning to respond with 2 units? Is it a safety measure for the police?
I'm as outraged as most NYC residents but I'm also terrified when I hear things like that- we are not going to be safe and things are going to return to how they were in the 70s/80s- where people didnt want to visit NYC and it was just a scary place.
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| Posted 12/22/14 10:38 AM |
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JDubs
different, not less
Member since 7/09 13160 total posts
Name:
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Re: Absolutely sick over this NYPD shooting/murder
Posted by Pray4Baby2010
Posted by Goobster
Posted by blumachaya
I just feel so sorry for the people in these communities, the cops are instructed by the PBA to not make any arrests and respond with 2 units to every call, virtually cutting the force in half! My son in law is a cop in the neighboring precinct and my family is beyond scared for him! It's the people of these neighborhoods that will suffer when the cops hands are tied trying to keep law and order. Just pray that all the men and women who go out every day and risk their lives to protect the citizens they serve will return home to their families!
Well everyone who protested can pat themselves on the back now. Well done. The cops will leave criminals alone now.
Why are they planning to respond with 2 units? Is it a safety measure for the police?
I'm as outraged as most NYC residents but I'm also terrified when I hear things like that- we are not going to be safe and things are going to return to how they were in the 70s/80s- where people didnt want to visit NYC and it was just a scary place.
Yes its a safety measure... each job they get, 2 cars will show up in case something happens there is back up.
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| Posted 12/22/14 10:48 AM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54917 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Absolutely sick over this NYPD shooting/murder
Posted by Pray4Baby2010
Posted by Goobster
Posted by blumachaya
I just feel so sorry for the people in these communities, the cops are instructed by the PBA to not make any arrests and respond with 2 units to every call, virtually cutting the force in half! My son in law is a cop in the neighboring precinct and my family is beyond scared for him! It's the people of these neighborhoods that will suffer when the cops hands are tied trying to keep law and order. Just pray that all the men and women who go out every day and risk their lives to protect the citizens they serve will return home to their families!
Well everyone who protested can pat themselves on the back now. Well done. The cops will leave criminals alone now.
Why are they planning to respond with 2 units? Is it a safety measure for the police?
I'm as outraged as most NYC residents but I'm also terrified when I hear things like that- we are not going to be safe and things are going to return to how they were in the 70s/80s- where people didnt want to visit NYC and it was just a scary place.
Yep. Well the cops' hands are tied now. They aren't allowed to police and do their jobs.
People want an anarchist state with no law enforcement, so now they'll have it.
They chant for dead cops, so now they'll have no cops.
Message edited 12/22/2014 10:52:16 AM.
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| Posted 12/22/14 10:50 AM |
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JRsMaMa
LIF Adult
Member since 11/07 2044 total posts
Name:
Jake's Mama
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Re: Absolutely sick over this NYPD shooting/murder
Posted by Ayne11
Yet god forbid he send his condolences and prayers to the police officers & their families in his statement. He sure as shit made sure to inject Garner & Browns name in his statement, didn't he!
Fuc*er! 
EXACTLY this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| Posted 12/22/14 12:04 PM |
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kahlua716
3 Girls for Me!
Member since 8/07 12475 total posts
Name:
Keri
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Re: Absolutely sick over this NYPD shooting/murder
Posted by Summergirl
Posted by KellyFG
Posted by mrsboss
There has most certainly been credible evidence the last 3 weeks of black gangs ordered to kill on duty and off duty cops. Cops (my family is NYPD, so it's not hearsay), have been ordered to their desks, do not serve warrants, do nothing unless an arrest is guaranteed, to protect themselves. There is a bounty on cops heads, where have you been?!
This POS mayor has incited this, instigated this brazen behavior. Allowed it. Encouraged it. He is no leader. He is a poor, pathetic excuse for a leader of any city, let alone NY.
It is pitiful that law enforcement has to be afraid to do their jobs. Maybe some people don't remember what NYC was like during times of weak leadership. My family owned a large car wholesale business on Jerome Ave in the Bronx for 30 years. There was a time when 5 or 6 cars would get stolen everyday in broad daylight and when we called the police to make reports they would not get out of their patrol car under any circumstance. They were fearful, rightfully so because they were being killed regularly.
Yes, there are bad cops but the lesson that is being missed here is respect. It starts with self respect, then respect for authority. All people in our society need to be reminded that laws exist for ALL of us. I believe in enforcing the law to the fullest extent. Many of you know my story, I have an adult child that was convicted of a very serious( nonviolent) crime and I am proud to say he was punished to the fullest extent of the law.
He has been roughed up by law enforcement many times since being released from jail and my response is- don't be a criminal, don't act shady, drive a legal vehicle, etc and you won't get roughed up. Because of his record police will be concerned about him and I agree with them. Now after 5 years of a clean record and conducting himself like a quality citizen he is starting to deserve the same treatment as people who obey laws. This is my son! A double standard does not apply! Do not break the law! It's very simple!
You are a rare type of parent nowadays and I applaud you for your parenting skills and tough love!! Too many parents want to blame everyone else and side with their kids from even a young age. They start by gettting into trouble for being a punk at school and the parents blame the teachers... Then it continues years later as they are blaming the cops. It's a sad and scary world and yesterday's events prove just how scary it is getting.There should be more parents like you... Like there used to be years ago. Kids used to say "when I got in trouble at school if my parents found out, I would get double at home" . Now parents want to go up to the school and yell and blame the teachers and then blame the cops and it's always " not my kid". That's part of the problem. The entitlement and no one taking responsibility for their or their kids actions. Kudos to you!
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| Posted 12/22/14 12:32 PM |
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LIRascal
drama. daily.
Member since 3/11 7287 total posts
Name:
Michelle
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Re: Absolutely sick over this NYPD shooting/murder
Posted by JME78
Posted by Goobster
Deblasio is the problem here, absolutely let things get out of control. He does have to protect "dante". Talk about being racist.
What did DiBlasio say that caused this man to kill a woman in MD?
Exactly.
This sick disgusting animal may have had an agenda to kill his GF, he may have hated cops and he was mentally ill enough to commit suicide.
But were his actions prompted by DiBlasio? Give me a break. Every time I hear this argument (that these senseless killings are DiBlasio's fault for making comments about Dante) I cringe.
So many people urged protest against Obamacare, called for his birth certificate to be checked, and wanted him to step down for various reasons. Did anything get done about it?
Just because there are protests, violence, and civil unrest doesn't mean that people are going to act upon the suggestion of a fee sick maniacs to wage war on the police.
NYPD have their very valid reasons not to agree or support all of the mayor's initiatives. I just think that blaming him for the actions of a maniac is kind of silly.
I also wanted to say that this couldn't happen at a worse time... The holidays.  . How awful for the families of these poor officers to lose them at all, but during the holidays just adds to the grief. 
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| Posted 12/22/14 1:25 PM |
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LeeCR7
LIF Infant
Member since 5/08 138 total posts
Name:
Laura
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Re: Absolutely sick over this NYPD shooting/murder
Posted by justbeachy
Change, in abstraction is great. As a concept, it's sexy. It's rose colored and exciting. It got our President elected. It's easy to yell loudly and march across a city and decry the injustices.
But then what?
It's a great question. One of the most eye-opening aspects of all of this was learning about how differently the justice system treats police officers.
As you probably know, there is no national database that compiles accusations against police or what happens after these accusations; the National Police Misconduct Reporting Project is the first attempt to do so. When a case is brought to a grand jury, it is sent to trial 99% of the time. That may seem unbelievable, and there are very slight variations among states and federal courts, but it is true.
"U.S. attorneys prosecuted 162,000 federal cases in 2010, the most recent year for which we have data. Grand juries declined to return an indictment in 11 of them."
However, with police it is very different. There is no data on how many accusations of police misconduct make it to grand juries, although estimates are very low. And the grand jury results are almost the opposite. Of 81 cases accusing police of misconduct in Texas from 2008-2010, only 1 was sent to trial.
I could go on throwing numbers at you, telling you that even when police officers are put on trial, they are convicted at a much lower rate (68% of civilians are convicted vs 33% of police officers; of that number only 12% of officers serve any time vs nearly half of civilians), but the point is that the justice system treats police officers differently.
And to a certain extent, that is fair. Police need to be able to use force, to protect themselves. They have trained for and deserve that authority. Most of them would never abuse that privilege. But that does not mean that those who do are above the law. Yet the law is not applied fairly to them.
Worse, it is a known factor in the world of law. Often prosecutors won't bother going to the grand jury, even with a decent case, because they know an indictment is unlikely. Officers themselves know that, most likely, their greatest punishment will be losing their jobs or losing a civil suit that the department must pay for. For most of the good police officers, none of this matters. But there is no group of people that is composed of the entirely good.
So what does this mean in terms of reform? I'm not sure, to be honest. Maybe we need a special prosecutor or a jury of police officer peers, who can more fairly judge a fellow officer's action. I, personally, don't have the answer. Although the police deserve some latitude, they don't deserve a free pass under the law.And since so few of them end up having to face any consequences, it is close to what they are getting. It is something we, as a society, should look at, and protesters have a right to demand change. Nobody is above the law, not even those charged with enforcing it.
All my information comes from Nate Silver's blog (the guy who has correctly predicted most of the recent elections--fairly unbiased)
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/allegations-of-police-misconduct-rarely-result-in-charges/
and from the National Police Misconduct Reporting Project (NPMRP), which only started in 2009, so this information is new.
http://www.policemisconduct.net/
Take a look at both if you have the time. They are very interesting reads.
Message edited 12/22/2014 1:52:07 PM.
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| Posted 12/22/14 1:49 PM |
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Goobster
:)
Member since 5/07 27557 total posts
Name:
:)
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Re: Absolutely sick over this NYPD shooting/murder
If you don't believe or understand how Diblasio, Obama and Holder have ANY responsibility in this slaying of 2 innocent police officers…maybe this will help you understand that you are missing some vital things that were said by all that created and influenced this hostile climate towards law enforcement. Jeanne Pirro highlights it all spot on.
http://insider.foxnews.com/2014/12/22/judge-jeanine-slams-de-blasio-youre-coward-blood-your-shoes
Message edited 12/22/2014 3:40:54 PM.
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| Posted 12/22/14 3:36 PM |
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justbeachy
So close....
Member since 7/07 2900 total posts
Name:
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Re: Absolutely sick over this NYPD shooting/murder
Posted by LeeCR7
Posted by justbeachy
Change, in abstraction is great. As a concept, it's sexy. It's rose colored and exciting. It got our President elected. It's easy to yell loudly and march across a city and decry the injustices.
But then what?
It's a great question. One of the most eye-opening aspects of all of this was learning about how differently the justice system treats police officers.
As you probably know, there is no national database that compiles accusations against police or what happens after these accusations; the National Police Misconduct Reporting Project is the first attempt to do so. When a case is brought to a grand jury, it is sent to trial 99% of the time. That may seem unbelievable, and there are very slight variations among states and federal courts, but it is true.
"U.S. attorneys prosecuted 162,000 federal cases in 2010, the most recent year for which we have data. Grand juries declined to return an indictment in 11 of them."
However, with police it is very different. There is no data on how many accusations of police misconduct make it to grand juries, although estimates are very low. And the grand jury results are almost the opposite. Of 81 cases accusing police of misconduct in Texas from 2008-2010, only 1 was sent to trial.
I could go on throwing numbers at you, telling you that even when police officers are put on trial, they are convicted at a much lower rate (68% of civilians are convicted vs 33% of police officers; of that number only 12% of officers serve any time vs nearly half of civilians), but the point is that the justice system treats police officers differently.
And to a certain extent, that is fair. Police need to be able to use force, to protect themselves. They have trained for and deserve that authority. Most of them would never abuse that privilege. But that does not mean that those who do are above the law. Yet the law is not applied fairly to them.
Worse, it is a known factor in the world of law. Often prosecutors won't bother going to the grand jury, even with a decent case, because they know an indictment is unlikely. Officers themselves know that, most likely, their greatest punishment will be losing their jobs or losing a civil suit that the department must pay for. For most of the good police officers, none of this matters. But there is no group of people that is composed of the entirely good.
So what does this mean in terms of reform? I'm not sure, to be honest. Maybe we need a special prosecutor or a jury of police officer peers, who can more fairly judge a fellow officer's action. I, personally, don't have the answer. Although the police deserve some latitude, they don't deserve a free pass under the law.And since so few of them end up having to face any consequences, it is close to what they are getting. It is something we, as a society, should look at, and protesters have a right to demand change. Nobody is above the law, not even those charged with enforcing it.
All my information comes from Nate Silver's blog (the guy who has correctly predicted most of the recent elections--fairly unbiased)
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/allegations-of-police-misconduct-rarely-result-in-charges/
and from the National Police Misconduct Reporting Project (NPMRP), which only started in 2009, so this information is new.
http://www.policemisconduct.net/
Take a look at both if you have the time. They are very interesting reads.
Thank you for your thoughtful response. While I don't think we see eye to eye on this issue, I appreciate your tone and your ability to remain unemotional in your response. If more people discussed the issues in your fashion, we could make progress!
You're right. Based on the statistics you quoted, it does appear that there is a disconnect somewhere in the system. But, I wholeheartedly believe in my fellow peers on a grand jury to make those decisions. When you speak of police officers NOT being convicted at trial, that is because a jury of peers finds that to be true. Does that mean the system is broken? To discount their efforts and say that the system is broken is dismissive of their thoughtful examination of the evidence.
I could possibly support a National Database - with the condition that any reported misconduct is documented and proven in a court of law. As I'm sure you agree, we live in an overly litigious society, and cops are an easy target for false accusations. Like you mentioned, most police officers do not abuse their power.
All of this is upsetting. It's still raw and emotional. Eventually we all need to come to the table and discuss reform, legislation, and ways to rebuild trust.
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| Posted 12/22/14 3:49 PM |
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Goobster
:)
Member since 5/07 27557 total posts
Name:
:)
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Re: Absolutely sick over this NYPD shooting/murder
Posted by JME78
"We've had four months of propaganda, starting with the president, that everybody should hate the police"
There are zero quotes that actually support his statements.
Here you go. Obama said plenty. This video shows him speaking and perpetuating the hostile climate towards police. So Guiliani was spot on as I said.
http://insider.foxnews.com/2014/12/22/judge-jeanine-slams-de-blasio-youre-coward-blood-your-shoes
Message edited 12/22/2014 3:55:10 PM.
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| Posted 12/22/14 3:53 PM |
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