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whoababy11
it's only forever
Member since 11/10 1598 total posts
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Disillusioned with catholic church
I have a DD entering second grade and I am struggling so hard with what to do about her religious education. We don’t go to church, though DH and I were both raised Catholic. The child sex abuse scandals make me absolutely sick to my stomach and further push me toward turning my back completely on the church. But for some reason I am having difficulty saying and deciding “we are not going to send them to CCD”. Catholic guilt maybe. I was wondering if any of you have struggled with this kind of dilemma and what you did. Also have any of you found a progressive church that teaches all the good stuff and none of the weird, anti gay anti abortion crap?
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Posted 8/17/18 9:24 AM  |
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klingklang77
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Re: Disillusioned with catholic church
That’s a hard question and I understand your Catholic guilt.
I grew up Catholic. My family recently switched over to Episcopalian, and found that very reasonable. However, I can’t really do that where I’m living (Catholic state).
I guess I would just send her to CCD and check what they are sending back with her. You can then decide if you want to do Catholic or not. I feel like none of that was pushed upon me. It was just about being a giving person. It’s really up to you. It does get a bit stricter, though, when they make their confirmation.
I have no kids, but I’m just going off my personal experience.
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| Posted 8/17/18 9:37 AM |
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lululu
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Member since 7/05 9508 total posts
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Re: Disillusioned with catholic church
I was raised Catholic and I am completely non religious and basically have no faith. I married a Jew that is not really practicing. We celebrate all the holiday but we don't belong to a church or temple. A lot of people recommended the Unitarian church but frankly I have no faith so there's no point for me. At times I am sad about the fact that my kids aren't part of the traditions but I really could not fathom belonging to the catholic church anymore. They are so hypocritical. The fact that women can't be priests, that priests can't marry.... It's all too much. Being anti-gay. It goes on and on.
I have to say my kids are much kinder than many of the Catholic kids in my town so I think it has more to do with how you raise them than what religion you expose them to.
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| Posted 8/17/18 9:38 AM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54917 total posts
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..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Disillusioned with catholic church
I can tell you that DD is in religious ed and they do not push any anti-gay or anti-abortion stuff on them.
Especially not at this age.
It's all very simple stuff, loving choices, etc
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| Posted 8/17/18 9:38 AM |
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MichLiz213
Life is Good!
Member since 7/07 7979 total posts
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Disillusioned with catholic church
I was raised Catholic and after the priest who married us was accused of sexual abuse, in combination with the ridiculous amount of hoops I had to jump through with three different churches because my brother was not married in the church but I wanted him to be my son’s godfather, I was done. We found an incredible nondenominational church with a great message and a fantastic children’s program. They do not make sacraments like the Catholic church, which we’re fine with. DS likes going, we like going. Our church is very much a come as you are kind of place and accepting of everyone, so it’s refreshing compared to the Catholic guilt that was laid into me for so many years.
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| Posted 8/17/18 9:45 AM |
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Aries14
Can't plan life...
Member since 8/08 2860 total posts
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Re: Disillusioned with catholic church
Posted by NervousNell
I can tell you that DD is in religious ed and they do not push any anti-gay or anti-abortion stuff on them.
Especially not at this age.
It's all very simple stuff, loving choices, etc
I agree. I knew I wanted my kids to go to religious ed (whatever they decide when they are older is their choice but I felt strongly about at least giving them the same background I received and not making that choice for them at 8 years old) - my DH didn't really care if they went or not. Once they started going my DH really turned his opinion around and liked that they were in it. Like NervousNell said - it wasn't at all what he thought (pushing ideas and opinions on them) it was all very loving and encouraging good choices, being nice to people, helping others in need.... it is a lot of just good core values.
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| Posted 8/17/18 9:51 AM |
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Jocelyn
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Member since 5/14 210 total posts
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Jocelyn
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Disillusioned with catholic church
This was something that weighed heavily on my mind from the time that I became pregnant. Both hubby and I were raised Catholic. I intentionally left the church in college and actively sought out other denominations of Christianity that are more inclusive and welcoming for all. In all honesty, hubby doesn't really think as much about these things either way.....he would have happily raised his child in the Catholic Church but also happily gone with whatever choice of church that I made. I'm sure he thinks I overthink things like this, but I digress...
anyhow....when I got pregnant, we decided (well, I decided - hubby just went along) to baptize our daughter in the United Church of Christ. I love that they are open and affirming of the LGBTQ community and that they have a healthy, normal way that approach and teach about sexuality. The faith is also for reproductive freedom, which is a biggie for me as well.
I think it depends on the age of the child - how much CCD lessons will go into social issues, etc. Our little one is only 3 and will be going to nursery school through a local catholic church, but I know they obviously won't be discussing homosexuality, etc. But, I do remember being in CCD in 7th/8th grade and them definitely discussing abortion, etc....so I think it will come into play at some point.
Personally, I would rather raise my child in a denomination where what they learn in Sunday school, etc is similar to what we say at home. I feel like with the Catholic church, I would be saying a lot of "well, yes, that is what the church says but we don't believe it." Then, why go there?
Message edited 8/17/2018 10:43:13 AM.
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| Posted 8/17/18 10:42 AM |
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Re: Disillusioned with catholic church
Posted by NervousNell
I can tell you that DD is in religious ed and they do not push any anti-gay or anti-abortion stuff on them.
Especially not at this age.
It's all very simple stuff, loving choices, etc
This is good to know, even when we got married, we did pre-Cana 5 years ago and they were open about premarital sex and living together and it was acknowledged and not frowned upon, but the couple teaching made you feel comfortable and were honest and understanding which was a nice change. I go back and forth all the time with religion in the future. My children were baptized and I feel it’s my job to expose them to the church and in the future let them choose if they want to practice or not but I think I wouldn’t feel right not encouraging them to make their sacraments...
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| Posted 8/17/18 10:50 AM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54917 total posts
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..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Disillusioned with catholic church
Posted by TwinMommyToBoys
Posted by NervousNell
I can tell you that DD is in religious ed and they do not push any anti-gay or anti-abortion stuff on them.
Especially not at this age.
It's all very simple stuff, loving choices, etc
This is good to know, even when we got married, we did pre-Cana 5 years ago and they were open about premarital sex and living together and it was acknowledged and not frowned upon, but the couple teaching made you feel comfortable and were honest and understanding which was a nice change. I go back and forth all the time with religion in the future. My children were baptized and I feel it’s my job to expose them to the church and in the future let them choose if they want to practice or not but I think I wouldn’t feel right not encouraging them to make their sacraments...
Yeah I can't imagine them telling 2nd graders- gays are bad! Abortion is bad!
I don't know what goes in in religious ed in middle school, but in elementary school it's not like that.
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| Posted 8/17/18 10:52 AM |
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Mags1227
Just a mommy ...
Member since 10/10 2665 total posts
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M
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Re: Disillusioned with catholic church
DH is against organized religion.
I am Catholic.
DS was baptized, goes to CCD.
There are a lot of things I disagree with the Church with, and I cannot stand my pastor. due to those factors, we are pretty lax on a lot of things.
HOWEVER, I know the Religious director running CCD, I know most of the teachers socially, I have taught CCD, so I am ok sending him for now. this year, I made a deal and will be "homeschooling" him because I do not approve of the teacher. She is very much old Church- antigay, antidenominational, we are the only way mentality.
DS is being raised Catholic, but we are also teaching him about other faiths and denominations so that he can find the wisdom in all of them and be respectful. If, when he is older, he decides to change religions or just give it all up I'm fine with that.
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| Posted 8/17/18 11:09 AM |
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M514
Hi
Member since 8/10 6011 total posts
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Disillusioned with catholic church
I grew up Catholic, went to Catholic school till 6th grade, went to church on Sundays, made my sacraments.... but as an adult, I don’t agree with some of their beliefs. My Dh is not Catholic and he’s doesn’t agree with anything the church does. However, our Dd was baptized and is now going into 2nd grade and attends religious ed. I felt like I had to give her some sort of religious background and she can make her own decisions when she gets older. Her class in 1st grade focused on learning the prayers, being kind, singing songs and knowing that God will always love you no matter what. She actually enjoyed going to class.
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| Posted 8/17/18 11:11 AM |
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Re: Disillusioned with catholic church
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by TwinMommyToBoys
Posted by NervousNell
I can tell you that DD is in religious ed and they do not push any anti-gay or anti-abortion stuff on them.
Especially not at this age.
It's all very simple stuff, loving choices, etc
This is good to know, even when we got married, we did pre-Cana 5 years ago and they were open about premarital sex and living together and it was acknowledged and not frowned upon, but the couple teaching made you feel comfortable and were honest and understanding which was a nice change. I go back and forth all the time with religion in the future. My children were baptized and I feel it’s my job to expose them to the church and in the future let them choose if they want to practice or not but I think I wouldn’t feel right not encouraging them to make their sacraments...
Yeah I can't imagine them telling 2nd graders- gays are bad! Abortion is bad!
I don't know what goes in in religious ed in middle school, but in elementary school it's not like that.
I think this also depends on the particular church. Growing up, my local Catholic Church was run by an anti-abortion, anti-gay priest, and his views were present in many aspects of the church (including their yearly trip to the March for Life in DC), so my mom left that parish and we drove 30 minutes to another church which was more open and accepting.
My DH and I decided not to baptize the kids, and we probably won't sign them up for any religious education, but I still want them to learn about religion, because I think it's an important thing to understand.
My parents supported us because they'd left the church a few years before due to the reactionary views of Pope Benedict, and they haven't gone back despite supporting Pope Francis and his more progressive views.
My MIL fought us on not baptizing the kids, which was kind of ridiculous because I've never seen her go to church for anything other than events, and I'm pretty sure she couldn't even name the current Pope.
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| Posted 8/17/18 11:17 AM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54917 total posts
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..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Disillusioned with catholic church
Posted by starbrightgirl8
My MIL fought us on not baptizing the kids, which was kind of ridiculous because I've never seen her go to church for anything other than events, and I'm pretty sure she couldn't even name the current Pope.
This always makes me laugh. The hypocrisy of the ones who say oh you HAVE to baptize, you HAVE to make a big hoopla for a Communion, but then you never see them in church, ever.
Um, why??
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| Posted 8/17/18 11:21 AM |
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Re: Disillusioned with catholic church
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by starbrightgirl8
My MIL fought us on not baptizing the kids, which was kind of ridiculous because I've never seen her go to church for anything other than events, and I'm pretty sure she couldn't even name the current Pope.
This always makes me laugh. The hypocrisy of the ones who say oh you HAVE to baptize, you HAVE to make a big hoopla for a Communion, but then you never see them in church, ever.
Um, why??
She kept saying that she wants them to have the option. I tried to explain that you can join most religions at any time, and she said it was harder later. But I think if my kids want to be part of a religion then they can put the work in to join (and who says they'll want to be Catholic).
I'm pretty sure she just thinks it is the social norm to have kids baptized - i.e., all her friends' grand-kids are baptized - so we should do it.
I also tried to explain that I wasn't going to lie to the church and say I would bring the kids up Catholic when I had no intention of actually doing so, but that didn't get through to her either.
She even offered to get them baptized herself if we didn't want to do the work. Um.... no. It's not about going to a few classes or whatever.
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| Posted 8/17/18 11:37 AM |
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MrsWoods
LIF Adult
Member since 4/12 1461 total posts
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Re: Disillusioned with catholic church
Posted by Jocelyn
Personally, I would rather raise my child in a denomination where what they learn in Sunday school, etc is similar to what we say at home. I feel like with the Catholic church, I would be saying a lot of "well, yes, that is what the church says but we don't believe it." Then, why go there?
I feel the same way. I will have to make that decision eventually too. My DH is Lutheran but not religious at all and i am Catholic but haven't gone to Church since i was younger but i still have faith. My DD was baptized in our local Catholic Church but i'm not sure if i will be doing any CCD or take her to Catholic Church at all. Because my husband is not religious, he said it all up to me because he doesn't really care one way or the other so it would be my responsibility to take her.
But because of everything stated about what the Church teaches and everything that goes on behind the scenes, i'm not sure if its even worth it. Because if you believe in one thing and they teach them another then why bother.
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| Posted 8/17/18 11:38 AM |
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LuckyStar
LIF Adult
Member since 7/14 7272 total posts
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Disillusioned with catholic church
I’m Catholic, DH is Jewish. DD is baptized. We haven’t decided what to do yet. I would like her to go to CCD long enough to make communion and then she can decide if she wants to continue. DH would strongly prefer no religion whatsoever.
Honestly, this latest scandal doesn’t color my opinion either way. Yes, it’s horrible but abuse happens in almost every religion, it’s just covered up more. To say it’s exclusively a catholic problem is untrue.
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| Posted 8/17/18 11:49 AM |
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dianadrw
LIF Adult
Member since 5/06 2092 total posts
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Me
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Re: Disillusioned with catholic church
I have struggled with this since DD was born. This new sex abuse scandal just really makes me want to leave. How many sex abuse scandals will it take for them to open up and clear the garbage and protect children??
DD is going into first grade and is about to start religious ed. Part of me just wants to say forget it. However, it's very important to DH. It is important to me to some degree, but as an Italian, it's more cultural than religious.
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| Posted 8/17/18 11:52 AM |
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LuckyStar
LIF Adult
Member since 7/14 7272 total posts
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Re: Disillusioned with catholic church
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by starbrightgirl8
My MIL fought us on not baptizing the kids, which was kind of ridiculous because I've never seen her go to church for anything other than events, and I'm pretty sure she couldn't even name the current Pope.
This always makes me laugh. The hypocrisy of the ones who say oh you HAVE to baptize, you HAVE to make a big hoopla for a Communion, but then you never see them in church, ever.
Um, why??
I think for a lot of people, it’s tradition. I’m not religious, but I still baptized my daughter. Down the road she can choose to practice Catholicism if she likes. If not, she can ignore that it ever happened.
But this was MY decision, not my parents’ which I think changes the situation quite a bit. No one should be pushing religion on anyone else, ever.
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| Posted 8/17/18 11:55 AM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54917 total posts
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..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Disillusioned with catholic church
Posted by LuckyStar
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by starbrightgirl8
My MIL fought us on not baptizing the kids, which was kind of ridiculous because I've never seen her go to church for anything other than events, and I'm pretty sure she couldn't even name the current Pope.
This always makes me laugh. The hypocrisy of the ones who say oh you HAVE to baptize, you HAVE to make a big hoopla for a Communion, but then you never see them in church, ever.
Um, why??
I think for a lot of people, it’s tradition. I’m not religious, but I still baptized my daughter. Down the road she can choose to practice Catholicism if she likes. If not, she can ignore that it ever happened.
But this was MY decision, not my parents’ which I think changes the situation quite a bit. No one should be pushing religion on anyone else, ever.
Yes, I'm of that mindset too- I want her to have the background, but as an adult I would NEVER push anything on her.
If she wants to practice religion at all, if she wants to convert to a different religion, if she wants nothing to do with any religion or how she raises her kids- that's none of my business
I know a lot of people who do the sacraments because their parents or IL's pressure them.
I don't agree with that
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| Posted 8/17/18 12:13 PM |
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11486 total posts
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Re: Disillusioned with catholic church
Posted by LuckyStar
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by starbrightgirl8
My MIL fought us on not baptizing the kids, which was kind of ridiculous because I've never seen her go to church for anything other than events, and I'm pretty sure she couldn't even name the current Pope.
This always makes me laugh. The hypocrisy of the ones who say oh you HAVE to baptize, you HAVE to make a big hoopla for a Communion, but then you never see them in church, ever.
Um, why??
I think for a lot of people, it’s tradition. I’m not religious, but I still baptized my daughter. Down the road she can choose to practice Catholicism if she likes. If not, she can ignore that it ever happened.
But this was MY decision, not my parents’ which I think changes the situation quite a bit. No one should be pushing religion on anyone else, ever.
I have to agree. I also think it’s more ingrained that if you don’t baptize, then God forbid something happens, then that child will not go to heaven. At least that is how it was in my family.
I guess it’s complicated to explain. You go through these CCD classes to do your sacraments. You may not go to church, but you do these classes. Every sacrament is special. It’s a right of passage; well, at least it was for me. It usually ends by the time they are 13 or so, but I think they changed the confirmation age.
But I do think it depends on the church. I had a great church and dioceses that did not shove anything down my throat.
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| Posted 8/17/18 12:33 PM |
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StaceyWill
It's a girl!!!
Member since 6/10 21536 total posts
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Stacey
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Re: Disillusioned with catholic church
I agree that it depends on the church. I went to Catholic Grammar School (and 2 years Catholic High School) and don't remember being taught anything anti-gay, or anti-abortion, etc.
There was, however, a priest that now I question his motives. He would always be hanging out with the same group of boys, taking them on trips, etc.
God forgive me if I'm wrong, but as a jaded adult it just seems sketchy.
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| Posted 8/17/18 1:06 PM |
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Sash
Peace
Member since 6/08 10312 total posts
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fka LIW Smara
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Re: Disillusioned with catholic church
Posted by LuckyStar
Honestly, this latest scandal doesn’t color my opinion either way. Yes, it’s horrible but abuse happens in almost every religion, it’s just covered up more. To say it’s exclusively a catholic problem is untrue.
I agree with this, I won't stop sending my son to school even though teachers and coaches have been know to do this. Its all about easy access for these disgusting pedophiles.
The Catholic church is alot more liberal than they were before. My son brought home an autobiography about Maurice Sendak from his catholic school library. Who was gay and talks about it in the book.
I went to CCD classes over 20 years ago and they did not talk about that stuff. Its all about the essentials to do to the sacraments and I was in a class for bigger kids.
If you don't believe in the faith then there is nothing wrong with raising your kids how you see fit. If you arent sure then you can try one year of classes.
My sister has a kids in catholic school but also goes to a christian non denominational church. I feel like all religions have similar beliefs at the root.
Message edited 8/17/2018 1:08:22 PM.
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| Posted 8/17/18 1:08 PM |
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pnbplus1
Family
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Mommy
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Re: Disillusioned with catholic church
Posted by lululu
I was raised Catholic and I am completely non religious and basically have no faith. I married a Jew that is not really practicing. We celebrate all the holiday but we don't belong to a church or temple. A lot of people recommended the Unitarian church but frankly I have no faith so there's no point for me. At times I am sad about the fact that my kids aren't part of the traditions but I really could not fathom belonging to the catholic church anymore. They are so hypocritical. The fact that women can't be priests, that priests can't marry.... It's all too much. Being anti-gay. It goes on and on.
I have to say my kids are much kinder than many of the Catholic kids in my town so I think it has more to do with how you raise them than what religion you expose them to.
I definitely agree that in terms of children, a lot has to do with how you raise them. People of all religions can be not kind, I don't believe religion necessarily has anything to do with that.
But my question is, if you have no faith and are non-religious, then why do you celebrate any of the religious holidays? Isn't that hypocritical in and of itself? I'm just generally curious as to why people celebrate holidays like Christmas, Easter, Hannukah, etc if they don't believe. These are holidays deeply rooted in the teachings of a religion so how do you justify celebrating?
The Catholic church (I am Catholic) definitely has a history of being hypocritical. I do however find some solace in that Pope Francis is pushing boundaries in a sense and shaping the "culture" of our religion to be more inclusive - breastfeeding, visiting people in jail, speaking out about the current sex abuse in the Church. I don't believe any religion is without its issues though and religion and our beliefs and opinions about it should be continually explored and challenged so that we are firm in our beliefs not just following bc it's what our parents did.
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| Posted 8/17/18 1:38 PM |
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Re: Disillusioned with catholic church
I don't have kids, but I think so much of this depends upon the parish and the individual church--as others have said. I attended Catholic school for 15 years and never once had any anti-LGBTQIA information presented to me. I do consider myself Catholic now--though I do not really attend church and disagree with a number of the beliefs.
On the other hand, I believe in some of the religion's positions, e.g., helping those in need, forgiveness, etc. My faith is in my heart. I've sought other denominations of Christianity, but none of them match perfectly with my beliefs...so I don't see a purpose (for myself) in converting. I'm very liberal and spiritual in my faith, so I'm comfortable practicing on my own.
DH was raised with no religion and went through RCIA in his early 20s; he'll want to go to church once in awhile, and I will go with him.
If DH and I have children, we would have them make the Catholic sacraments and take them to church once in awhile; I think having a religious base helped me in many ways. I also think it was far more difficult for DH to absorb all of these teachings in a year-long program than it was for me in all those years of schooling and church. I think having the background has allowed me to make more informed decisions about religion and spirituality whereas DH does not have as much of a base to build from.
Message edited 8/17/2018 1:58:25 PM.
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| Posted 8/17/18 1:50 PM |
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MrsWoods
LIF Adult
Member since 4/12 1461 total posts
Name:
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Re: Disillusioned with catholic church
Message edited 8/17/2018 2:37:52 PM.
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| Posted 8/17/18 2:33 PM |
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