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No matter what side you are on....
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Jenhos
Maeve
Member since 6/05 3273 total posts
Name:
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No matter what side you are on....
Leaks should scare the hell out of all of us.
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Posted 6/9/17 11:11 AM  |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: No matter what side you are on....
I agree that Trump leaking classified info to Russia is VERY scary.
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| Posted 6/12/17 10:15 AM |
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ohbaby08
Winter is Coming
Member since 10/07 1718 total posts
Name:
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No matter what side you are on....
Leaks are the least of our problems right now.
What scares the hell out of me is that we have a president who does not seem to care about what the Russians did and are STILL doing to subvert our democracy. They interfered in our election. That's not an opinion, it's fact. They will be back in 2018, 2020 with more sophisticated methods. So, no, leaks don't scare me right now.
Without leaks we wouldn't know about a multitude of the shady crap that has gone on since Jan. 20th.
Should Deep Throat have scared the hell out of people? Was he the bad guy in Watergate? Nope.
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| Posted 6/12/17 10:37 AM |
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seaside
LIF Adult
Member since 6/08 3101 total posts
Name:
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Re: No matter what side you are on....
Yes, but a leak is something thar the public is not ALLOWED to know because the information could endanger society. There is a prohibition by law, convention, treaty, or some other source of law, and that prohibition is violated.
A leak is NOT someone repeating something that may be harmful to an individual that the individual does not WANT repeated because they are embarrassed.
We need to all be using the same operative definitions here. No one can invoke a privilege or a prohibition that doesn't exist just because they has a conversation that they regret having.
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| Posted 6/12/17 11:25 AM |
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ohbaby08
Winter is Coming
Member since 10/07 1718 total posts
Name:
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Re: No matter what side you are on....
Posted by seaside
Yes, but a leak is something thar the public is not ALLOWED to know because the information could endanger society. There is a prohibition by law, convention, treaty, or some other source of law, and that prohibition is violated.
A leak is NOT someone repeating something that may be harmful to an individual that the individual does not WANT repeated because they are embarrassed.
We need to all be using the same operative definitions here. No one can invoke a privilege or a prohibition that doesn't exist just because they has a conversation that they regret having.
Yes. Leaks of asinine, possibly criminal things that Trump has done are not dangerous to the country.
But, leaks like the one of CIA documents to Wikileaks recently was very dangerous.
Not sure which leaks the OP was referring to.
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| Posted 6/12/17 11:34 AM |
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Re: No matter what side you are on....
Posted by seaside
Yes, but a leak is something thar the public is not ALLOWED to know because the information could endanger society. There is a prohibition by law, convention, treaty, or some other source of law, and that prohibition is violated.
A leak is NOT someone repeating something that may be harmful to an individual that the individual does not WANT repeated because they are embarrassed.
We need to all be using the same operative definitions here. No one can invoke a privilege or a prohibition that doesn't exist just because they has a conversation that they regret having.
Good point. Comey is being called a leaker- but IMO (and I'm not alone) that what he did was not a 'leak.' None of his info was classified and he himself provided direction on how to use it.
What Comey did isn't like some of the folks working in the WH who are privvy to insider info, which they then share secretly with journalists.
And it's not like Trump sharing info we got from Israel with the Russians. If he's so concerned with leaks, which is his right, he needs to begin functioning with way more discretion. He's acting like a teenage girl who gets dirt on the prom queen and thinks she's going to get popular by telling everyone.
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| Posted 6/12/17 11:43 AM |
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seaside
LIF Adult
Member since 6/08 3101 total posts
Name:
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Re: No matter what side you are on....
Actually, when you "leak" information about criminal or unethical ongoings that are not classified or privileged, it's called whistleblowing, and it provides accountability & transparency and HELPS society.
It just pisses off those who come off looking bad.
We have to keep an eye on the difference between leaking and lawful, free, beneficial speech.
It's like working somewhere. If you release their proprietary recipes, plans, info, etc., you have misappropriated what is not yours and have likely committed a crime.
If you tell anyone--a friend, the press, a court, etc., that you were sexually harassed by the CEO, you have every right to speak out. No matter how humiliating it is for your harasser. You are helping yourself, your workplace, and women when you do.
And if they fire or otherwise harm you, they have unlawfully retaliated against YOU.
This administration sometimes looks like they WANT to blur these lines. We shouldn't let them.
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| Posted 6/12/17 12:17 PM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: No matter what side you are on....
Posted by seaside
Actually, when you "leak" information about criminal or unethical ongoings that are not classified or privileged, it's called whistleblowing, and it provides accountability & transparency and HELPS society.
It just pisses off those who come off looking bad.
We have to keep an eye on the difference between leaking and lawful, free, beneficial speech.
It's like working somewhere. If you release their proprietary recipes, plans, info, etc., you have misappropriated what is not yours and have likely committed a crime.
If you tell anyone--a friend, the press, a court, etc., that you were sexually harassed by the CEO, you have every right to speak out. No matter how humiliating it is for your harasser. You are helping yourself, your workplace, and women when you do.
And if they fire or otherwise harm you, they have unlawfully retaliated against YOU.
This administration sometimes looks like they WANT to blur these lines. We shouldn't let them.
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| Posted 6/12/17 12:48 PM |
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Jenhos
Maeve
Member since 6/05 3273 total posts
Name:
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Re: No matter what side you are on....
People should worry about leaks of all kinds. I do consider a private conversation between any president and the director of the FBI confidential. In this instance if Comey thought what was said was inappropriate than he should have escalated up the appropriate channels. Telling his friend to call the press was not how it should have been handled. Can you imagine if anyone that spoke to the president or one of our generals about something could write down what they remembered from the meeting and share it publically with no consequences....this could be very dangerous.
My post wasn't just related to Comey. Our government is leaking badly now. Things that are getting out and could get out can be very dangerous. No matter how people feel about Trump they shouldn't want things leaked that can hurt us as a country.
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| Posted 6/12/17 12:59 PM |
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seaside
LIF Adult
Member since 6/08 3101 total posts
Name:
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Re: No matter what side you are on....
I respectfully disagree. I can't say that I blanket consider any conversation between those 2 classified. If Comey were a woman and he tried to proposition her, it would be in all of our interest to know. If Comey believed that he was asked something inappropriate, he owes Trump no loyalty. He owes it to the public to shine a light on it.
If t's not state secrets, national security, privileged, classified, etc., it is fair game, especially if there is an allegation of wrongdoing in there. That gives us all transparency--makes Trump accountable and tells everyone that these top people do not serve the president, but the American people.
Personally, I don't believe it's an unlawful leak if he had every right to repeat it. No one, not even a president, should be able to demand personal loyalty and intimate that he wants something inappropriate done and feel that the conversation is insulated because of who he is. That hurts us as a country, as well as our integrity and processes.
If the conversation were legally off limits, classified or if Comey lied, then obviously he's on the wrong side of the law. But barring that stuff, I cannot equate what Comey did with a "leak" that compromises us.
Message edited 6/12/2017 6:58:05 PM.
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| Posted 6/12/17 6:56 PM |
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Jenhos
Maeve
Member since 6/05 3273 total posts
Name:
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Re: No matter what side you are on....
Posted by seaside
I respectfully disagree. I can't say that I blanket consider any conversation between those 2 classified. If Comey were a woman and he tried to proposition her, it would be in all of our interest to know. If Comey believed that he was asked something inappropriate, he owes Trump no loyalty. He owes it to the public to shine a light on it.
If t's not state secrets, national security, privileged, classified, etc., it is fair game, especially if there is an allegation of wrongdoing in there. That gives us all transparency--makes Trump accountable and tells everyone that these top people do not serve the president, but the American people.
Personally, I don't believe it's an unlawful leak if he had every right to repeat it. No one, not even a president, should be able to demand personal loyalty and intimate that he wants something inappropriate done and feel that the conversation is insulated because of who he is. That hurts us as a country, as well as our integrity and processes.
If the conversation were legally off limits, classified or if Comey lied, then obviously he's on the wrong side of the law. But barring that stuff, I cannot equate what Comey did with a "leak" that compromises us.
Again, thus post wasn't just abouth the Comey stuff but while on the subject, why didn't he just disclose it himself? If it's not unlawful? If the public deserves to know to hold the president accountable? If he had every right to repeat?
Who's to say he won't or hasn't shared other things?
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| Posted 6/12/17 11:31 PM |
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GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!
Member since 11/06 26792 total posts
Name:
Shawn
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Re: No matter what side you are on....
Posted by Jenhos
Posted by seaside
I respectfully disagree. I can't say that I blanket consider any conversation between those 2 classified. If Comey were a woman and he tried to proposition her, it would be in all of our interest to know. If Comey believed that he was asked something inappropriate, he owes Trump no loyalty. He owes it to the public to shine a light on it.
If t's not state secrets, national security, privileged, classified, etc., it is fair game, especially if there is an allegation of wrongdoing in there. That gives us all transparency--makes Trump accountable and tells everyone that these top people do not serve the president, but the American people.
Personally, I don't believe it's an unlawful leak if he had every right to repeat it. No one, not even a president, should be able to demand personal loyalty and intimate that he wants something inappropriate done and feel that the conversation is insulated because of who he is. That hurts us as a country, as well as our integrity and processes.
If the conversation were legally off limits, classified or if Comey lied, then obviously he's on the wrong side of the law. But barring that stuff, I cannot equate what Comey did with a "leak" that compromises us.
Again, thus post wasn't just abouth the Comey stuff but while on the subject, why didn't he just disclose it himself? If it's not unlawful? If the public deserves to know to hold the president accountable? If he had every right to repeat?
Who's to say he won't or hasn't shared other things?
http://time.com/4811044/james-comey-testimony-media-leaks/
"It didn't dawn on me, originally, that there might be corroboration for our conversation [there] might be a tape, my judgement was I needed get that out into the public square and so I asked a friend of mine to share the content of the memo with a reporter," he said.
He didn't leak to the media himself, he said, because he was worried it would be like "feeding seagulls at the beach."
Because he was smart enough to know exactly what responses there would be if he personally published everything, vs an "anonymous" person publishing it. He's much more savvy politically than anyone in the WH, and he got exactly what he was hoping for.
If we know for a fact that trump has already leaked "code word" classified info to Russia, how many other things has he given them?
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| Posted 6/13/17 6:36 AM |
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JME78
LIF Adult
Member since 11/09 3672 total posts
Name:
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Re: No matter what side you are on....
Posted by GoldenRod
Posted by Jenhos
Posted by seaside
I respectfully disagree. I can't say that I blanket consider any conversation between those 2 classified. If Comey were a woman and he tried to proposition her, it would be in all of our interest to know. If Comey believed that he was asked something inappropriate, he owes Trump no loyalty. He owes it to the public to shine a light on it.
If t's not state secrets, national security, privileged, classified, etc., it is fair game, especially if there is an allegation of wrongdoing in there. That gives us all transparency--makes Trump accountable and tells everyone that these top people do not serve the president, but the American people.
Personally, I don't believe it's an unlawful leak if he had every right to repeat it. No one, not even a president, should be able to demand personal loyalty and intimate that he wants something inappropriate done and feel that the conversation is insulated because of who he is. That hurts us as a country, as well as our integrity and processes.
If the conversation were legally off limits, classified or if Comey lied, then obviously he's on the wrong side of the law. But barring that stuff, I cannot equate what Comey did with a "leak" that compromises us.
Again, thus post wasn't just abouth the Comey stuff but while on the subject, why didn't he just disclose it himself? If it's not unlawful? If the public deserves to know to hold the president accountable? If he had every right to repeat?
Who's to say he won't or hasn't shared other things?
http://time.com/4811044/james-comey-testimony-media-leaks/
"It didn't dawn on me, originally, that there might be corroboration for our conversation [there] might be a tape, my judgement was I needed get that out into the public square and so I asked a friend of mine to share the content of the memo with a reporter," he said.
He didn't leak to the media himself, he said, because he was worried it would be like "feeding seagulls at the beach."
Because he was smart enough to know exactly what responses there would be if he personally published everything, vs an "anonymous" person publishing it. He's much more savvy politically than anyone in the WH, and he got exactly what he was hoping for.
If we know for a fact that trump has already leaked "code word" classified info to Russia, how many other things has he given them?
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| Posted 6/13/17 10:33 AM |
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JME78
LIF Adult
Member since 11/09 3672 total posts
Name:
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No matter what side you are on....
The president basically threatened Comey on Twitter with his whole - he better hope there are not tapes BS.
Why shouldn't he set the record straight.
Reporters are dogged, he didn't want to open the floodgates to him personally, so he made arrangements to do it another way. Its not nefarious.
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| Posted 6/13/17 10:34 AM |
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Pumpkin1
LIF Adult
Member since 12/05 3715 total posts
Name:
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No matter what side you are on....
Leaks are nothing new and the emphasis on "leaks" is just a distraction. Instead of addressing the fact that he hired a foreign agent as his right hand man, the president instead chose to blame the messenger instead of the guilty party. That is lesson #1 of manipulation. Thankfully people are not letting Trump getting away with these antics but unfortunately, he just conjures up another drama to redirect our attention (which is lesson #2).
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| Posted 6/13/17 2:47 PM |
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