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Redshirting/holding back - VENT.

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itsbabytime
LIF Adult

Member since 11/05

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Me

Redshirting/holding back - VENT.

This situation is really getting out of control and honestly it's pissing me off. It's completely unfair and shouldn't be allowed. If you wanted to complain about this situation - who would you complain to? The principal? The Superindent? Who has control to put and end to this?

Message edited 5/3/2013 7:48:03 PM.

Posted 5/3/13 7:47 PM
 

InShock
life is good

Member since 10/06

9258 total posts

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Redshirting/holding back - VENT.

Complain about what exactly?

Posted 5/3/13 8:22 PM
 

Lillykat
going along for the ride...

Member since 5/05

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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.

Posted by itsbabytime

This situation is really getting out of control and honestly it's pissing me off. It's completely unfair and shouldn't be allowed. If you wanted to complain about this situation - who would you complain to? The principal? The Superindent? Who has control to put and end to this?



Not sure really what it will accomplish. What exactly are you upset about?

Posted 5/3/13 8:29 PM
 

LSP2005
Bunny kisses are so cute!

Member since 5/05

19402 total posts

Name:
L

Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.

I hear you. There is a kid in my son's class that is well over a year older than he is (almost 15 months) and in kindergarten it makes an enormous difference. It is getting out of hand. One of my friends in a neighboring district said her daughters class is so bad that the kids are 18 months older than her daughter and her daughter is not even the youngest kid in her class. They are almost 20 months older than the youngest kid in the class. These kids were not held back by the school, just red shirted by their parents.

I am not sure if you know, but bloomberg has done away with it for next year. If you live in the city and did not send your kid to kindergarten on time this year, you are SOL for next year and the kid has to go to first grade regardless of whether they attended private kindergarten, preschool, or nothing at all.

Posted 5/3/13 8:57 PM
 

BigB
C & J are 10!

Member since 6/05

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Stacey

Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.

In NYC DOE, you cannot redshirt. Let's say, your child has a December bday and you decide to not send them to K in the fall of 2013. When Sept 2014 rolls around, your child will be placed in 1st grade!

Posted 5/3/13 9:41 PM
 

Lillykat
going along for the ride...

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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.

Posted by BigB

In NYC DOE, you cannot redshirt. Let's say, your child has a December bday and you decide to not send them to K in the fall of 2013. When Sept 2014 rolls around, your child will be placed in 1st grade!



You know I have mixed feelings about this. While I agree with itsbabytime it has gotten ridiculous and something needs to be done. There are many kids I can think of whose parents decided at 2 to hold them back with no reason other than they werea Sep, Oct, or Dec baby. But a blanket policy seems unfair to the child who truly is not emotionally or academically ready to start. There are kids who legitimately need to be held back. What happens to them? My DD is an early summer birthday but honestly I never worried nor noticed how old anyone is.

Posted 5/4/13 5:15 AM
 

ny55angel
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Member since 2/06

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Name:
P

Redshirting/holding back - VENT.

It scares me because DS it's an October baby so already he is going to be one of the youngest in his class when he goes. So if there is a January redshirted kids in the class that child will be 22 months older them ds. That's a LOT when your talking physical maturity alone. Then again like Lillykat said, a blanket policy isn't 100% fair either if a child is truly not ready for K. DS was born 7 weeks early. If he was born on his exact due date (December 2) he would have automatically been a year later in school. So for him if he is not academically, socially or emotionally ready, under a blanket policy he would be out of luck. Having the school review on a case by case basis would be an extreme overuse of school resources though. It seems like there is truly no right answer unfortunately.

Posted 5/4/13 8:15 AM
 

KarenK122
The Journey is the Destination

Member since 5/05

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Karen

Redshirting/holding back - VENT.

I half agree with you. I really think they should move the cut off date for school to July 31st. That would eliminate any child entering K at 4 years old. That is what I think most of the problem is. DD is an October bday and is repeating K this year. Main reason is she is socially more on par with the kids in K now than last year and looking into the future there is no way that I would be sending a 17 year old to college. They aren't even legal adults yet. (IMO of course : ) ).

You would always get a few "older" kids in the class but that doesn't bother me at all. There are always kids that are retained or left back for medical reasons or educational reasons. I really think the idea of sending a 4 year old to school for a full day is unsettling for alot of people.

Posted 5/4/13 8:44 AM
 

bethsiar
LIF Adult

Member since 9/05

1390 total posts

Name:
Beth

Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.

My daughter went to K at 4 years old - she had to be tested b/c she didnt make the Dec 1st cut off and she passed much to my amazement and to others since most early entrants fail.

We couldnt afford another year of preschool and were jumping for joy when she got in. It really would have been so sad if I had to keep her home for yet another year with my 2 year old.

I also wanted her in early b.c in my naive state I thought if I held her back she would be the oldest in her class and I didnt want her to be so much more mature when they get older than the boys, being the first driver....etc. Little did I know that there would be kids another year older than the cut off birthdays!

I have 2 Daisy troops. One is a first grade and one is a K. I have girls in my K daisy troop that are much older than girls in my 1st grade troop. Its crazy!

My 1st grader is totally confused by the much older girls who are too cool for the stuff average 1st graders like. Its not their fault, they are just too old for 1st grade....

Posted 5/4/13 9:56 AM
 

Annie91606
Brotherly love

Member since 12/07

1816 total posts

Name:
Anne

Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.

I can't stand it myself.

Where I live (VA) the cut off is 9/30. Kids born in May and after are frequently held back. The parents want to give them an extra year of preschool and an academic advantage in kindergarten.

Except for some cases, I feel it is unnecessary.

Posted 5/4/13 2:40 PM
 

itsbabytime
LIF Adult

Member since 11/05

9612 total posts

Name:
Me

Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.

It seems like there are many of us frustrated with this! So who would you complain to that has the power to reform this situation?

Posted 5/4/13 7:31 PM
 

itsbabytime
LIF Adult

Member since 11/05

9612 total posts

Name:
Me

Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.

Posted by LSP2005

I hear you. There is a kid in my son's class that is well over a year older than he is (almost 15 months) and in kindergarten it makes an enormous difference. It is getting out of hand. One of my friends in a neighboring district said her daughters class is so bad that the kids are 18 months older than her daughter and her daughter is not even the youngest kid in her class. They are almost 20 months older than the youngest kid in the class. These kids were not held back by the school, just red shirted by their parents.

I am not sure if you know, but bloomberg has done away with it for next year. If you live in the city and did not send your kid to kindergarten on time this year, you are SOL for next year and the kid has to go to first grade regardless of whether they attended private kindergarten, preschool, or nothing at all.



I didn't know! Where can I find more info on this? This is what they need to do on LI NOW!

Posted 5/4/13 7:31 PM
 

Lillykat
going along for the ride...

Member since 5/05

16253 total posts

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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.

Posted by itsbabytime

Posted by LSP2005

I hear you. There is a kid in my son's class that is well over a year older than he is (almost 15 months) and in kindergarten it makes an enormous difference. It is getting out of hand. One of my friends in a neighboring district said her daughters class is so bad that the kids are 18 months older than her daughter and her daughter is not even the youngest kid in her class. They are almost 20 months older than the youngest kid in the class. These kids were not held back by the school, just red shirted by their parents.

I am not sure if you know, but bloomberg has done away with it for next year. If you live in the city and did not send your kid to kindergarten on time this year, you are SOL for next year and the kid has to go to first grade regardless of whether they attended private kindergarten, preschool, or nothing at all.



I didn't know! Where can I find more info on this?
This is what they need to do on LI NOW!



Is this really a problem near you? Seems like the kids I have seen held back really need that extra year. I don't want the option taken completely away, because I do feel there are some kids who really do need that year. There must be a way because I don't think it is black and white. I do think a national cut off would be better. Many other states have Sept, earlier or later cut offs. Moving the cut off to Sept 1st like many others states would then at least ensure children are 5 when they start.

You seem very fired up about this...did something happen recently?

Posted 5/4/13 8:31 PM
 

Karen
Just chillin'!!

Member since 1/06

9690 total posts

Name:
Karen

Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.

I was very worried about this, but I can't say it has been a issue in DD's K-class.

I do strongly think though that NY needs September 1st as a cut-off - every child will be 5. No red-shirting allowed without proper medical documentation (or something of that nature). It's too easy now to just hold a child back.

I know many districts will NOT allow a child born December 2nd to even test in, so if they are taking a strong stance on that, they should also take it on the other side of the coin.

Posted 5/4/13 9:19 PM
 

bethsiar
LIF Adult

Member since 9/05

1390 total posts

Name:
Beth

Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.

I have read that the school districts dont "MIND" per say.

The reason the states across the country are pushing the K entrance date back further and further is b/c they want the older kids.

Older kids do academically better which means they test grade level better which means the school tests better.

which of course is so important these days....


I agree with Karen, if they are so bent on the cut off date, it should go both ways.

Posted 5/5/13 8:20 AM
 

itsbabytime
LIF Adult

Member since 11/05

9612 total posts

Name:
Me

Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.

Posted by bethsiar

I have read that the school districts dont "MIND" per say.

The reason the states across the country are pushing the K entrance date back further and further is b/c they want the older kids.

Older kids do academically better which means they test grade level better which means the school tests better.

which of course is so important these days....


I agree with Karen, if they are so bent on the cut off date, it should go both ways.



I'm fine with an earlier cut-off date! I wish they would just do it and then make it a hard fast rule. Move the cut-off date to July 31st and then ALL kids have to start with their class year (or show a documented reason supported by professional evaluation). At least this way there will be an even, fair, classroom. Yes, there will always be kids that are the youngest but, a 5.5 yr old should NOT have to be competing with 7 yr olds in the classroom and on the sports field.

Posted 5/5/13 10:01 AM
 

itsbabytime
LIF Adult

Member since 11/05

9612 total posts

Name:
Me

Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.

Posted by Lillykat

Posted by itsbabytime

Posted by LSP2005

I hear you. There is a kid in my son's class that is well over a year older than he is (almost 15 months) and in kindergarten it makes an enormous difference. It is getting out of hand. One of my friends in a neighboring district said her daughters class is so bad that the kids are 18 months older than her daughter and her daughter is not even the youngest kid in her class. They are almost 20 months older than the youngest kid in the class. These kids were not held back by the school, just red shirted by their parents.

I am not sure if you know, but bloomberg has done away with it for next year. If you live in the city and did not send your kid to kindergarten on time this year, you are SOL for next year and the kid has to go to first grade regardless of whether they attended private kindergarten, preschool, or nothing at all.



I didn't know! Where can I find more info on this?
This is what they need to do on LI NOW!



Is this really a problem near you? Seems like the kids I have seen held back really need that extra year. I don't want the option taken completely away, because I do feel there are some kids who really do need that year. There must be a way because I don't think it is black and white. I do think a national cut off would be better. Many other states have Sept, earlier or later cut offs. Moving the cut off to Sept 1st like many others states would then at least ensure children are 5 when they start.

You seem very fired up about this...did something happen recently?



Hi, I just responded to your FM as well. No, nothing really happened. Honestly, I am lucky in the fact that my DC is a really smart kid and is holding his own. That said, in my town at least it has gotten out of control. It has become a way for crazy moms to achieve the ultimate competitive advantage for their children. I have no problem with a child with delays being held back. I have a problem when it is the over-achiever child - the child that is over-exceling in every area repeating Kindergarten in public school after going in private school. This is just ridiculous and out of control. I'm looking into the future and it is hugely unfair - academics is only part of the picture - a year PLUS is a huge difference! In size and agility and motor skills. My DS is 5.5 in a class room and sports fields with SEVEN year olds!!!! They do not belong in K and it needs to stop. It's honestly not fair to the children either! I feel so bad for some of his friends that are smart - already reading well at the end of private K and doing well in all areas and now their parents are making them repeat K all over again!!! They are in sports with DS now and next year they will play K sports all over again!!!!

All I want is for this to stop being a "loop hole" for parents. Move the cut-off earlier and stick to it! Of course, there may be kids that are the exception and need another year developmentally but, a parent should have to have testing done and show cause! Make the cut-off July 31st and stick to it!


Message edited 5/5/2013 10:09:18 AM.

Posted 5/5/13 10:05 AM
 

Onemoretime
LIF Adult

Member since 9/12

1077 total posts

Name:

Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.

There are a few boys in my kids class that are almost a year older. My kid looks like a baby compared to them. I'm sure parents have their reasons for holding kids back, but I disagree with it for a lot of reasons. I was thinking of holding mine back , 4 yo starting kindy. after talking to my PED about what she thought it would be crazy to keep dc back.

If the child is severely delayed, or course.

Message edited 5/5/2013 10:54:09 AM.

Posted 5/5/13 10:31 AM
 

Onemoretime
LIF Adult

Member since 9/12

1077 total posts

Name:

Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.

Message edited 5/5/2013 10:53:00 AM.

Posted 5/5/13 10:37 AM
 

Goobster
:)

Member since 5/07

27557 total posts

Name:
:)

Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.

I would start with the principal, the district office. I am worried about this also...redshirting is going to seriously widen the gap way too much in a class. My child is already the youngest and I fear will now have children TWO years older than her in class.

Posted 5/5/13 10:51 AM
 

itsbabytime
LIF Adult

Member since 11/05

9612 total posts

Name:
Me

Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.

Posted by Goobster

I would start with the principal, the district office. I am worried about this also...redshirting is going to seriously widen the gap way too much in a class. My child is already the youngest and I fear will now have children TWO years older than her in class.



And, see, this is the circle it is creating. I know people that have children born at the end of the yr that don't want to hold them back BUT, they feel they almost have to because of all the red-shirting. It is one thing for them to be a november birthday with kids born the previous december BUT, throw in a number of kids born the previous June, August, September and it becomes unfair to the November child! Red-shirting just adds to the problem and creates an issue for parents that don't want to hold their child back but, start to feel they have no choice Chat Icon

Posted 5/5/13 11:37 AM
 

Jugglemom
LIF Adolescent

Member since 3/12

809 total posts

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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.

I will admit it - I held my DD back. I am very content about it and would do it again. My dd has a late December birthday and I do not agree with a Kindergartener being 4 for 4 full months. This was not about about her being the youngest but rather about the fact that I thought the cutoff in our school district was way too late and I think it is unfair for children who are starting at almost 4.5 to be required to meet Kindergarten standards.

I think my DD would have been ok academically because she is quite bright but I think she was too young in general.

Everyone I know who has redshirted in our district is a December bday so I don't think it is too much of a problem here. I would love to see the date pushed back so tat everyone has to be 5 when they start K.

Posted 5/5/13 11:48 AM
 

bethsiar
LIF Adult

Member since 9/05

1390 total posts

Name:
Beth

Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.

jugglemom, I dont think anyone on this thread seems to disagree with holding back a Dec birthday, I would have (especially knowing what I know now) if I had the money to.

Its the parents like a friend of mine who is holding back a June birthday just b/c her son is short, but she's only doing it b/c other boys who are much bigger are ALSO being held back so now he's even smaller by comparison. Like we all said, its a crazy cycle...

My point earlier was if we're going to keep pushing the entrance age, it doesnt make sense to not have an exit age. What is the point of saying you have to be 5 when you enter K if you can also be almost 7? At that point, does it really matter if your 4.5 years old vs 5 years old if the 5 year old is at the same age disadvantage?

Posted 5/5/13 5:33 PM
 

Goobster
:)

Member since 5/07

27557 total posts

Name:
:)

Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.

Posted by bethsiar
At that point, does it really matter if your 4.5 years old vs 5 years old if the 5 year old is at the same age disadvantage?




BINGO. They need to stop allowing this ASAP.

Posted 5/5/13 8:50 PM
 

KarenK122
The Journey is the Destination

Member since 5/05

4306 total posts

Name:
Karen

Redshirting/holding back - VENT.

I think one of the issues is that a child is not required to be enrolled in school until 6 years old. This is why so many people do private K and then enroll in public K when the child is 6. They should make it mandatory to start at 5 and with changing the cut off dates to the summer, would end alot of the issues.

Posted 5/5/13 10:34 PM
 
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