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5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform

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mommy2Alex
3 babies for me :)

Member since 5/05

6679 total posts

Name:

Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform

Posted by smdl

Are people SO naive?

Do people think they get WHATEVER they want right now?


I need a referal for a specialist. I need a pre-authorization for an MRI or CScan.

Insurances are tighting the belt. They are declining procedures, delaying authorization.

You CAN wait 3+ months to see a specialists RIGHT NOW. Sometimes almost 6 months for a specialist in demand. You can wait 4+ hours in an ER RIGHT NOW.

Where the heck have some people been all this time?



I don't think people are naive. I think a lot of people are comfortable with the current system. I don't think anyone thinks they will walk into an ER and be seen right away. I don't see how a government run program will solve any the issues you raised above but only increase the wait times and bueratic bs you will have to go to get the procedures you need done.

Posted 7/31/09 7:04 AM
 
Long Island Weddings
Long Island's Largest Bridal Resource

Blu-ize
Plan B is Now Plan A

Member since 7/05

32475 total posts

Name:
Susan

Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform

Posted by smdl

Are people SO naive?

Do people think they get WHATEVER they want right now?


I need a referal for a specialist. I need a pre-authorization for an MRI or CScan.

Insurances are tighting the belt. They are declining procedures, delaying authorization.

You CAN wait 3+ months to see a specialists RIGHT NOW. Sometimes almost 6 months for a specialist in demand. You can wait 4+ hours in an ER RIGHT NOW.

Where the heck have some people been all this time?



I wish people would speak from personal experience like this.

While I don't need a referral many, many do. My doctors offices all ask me if I need a referral and I don't but they are usually surprised. I can go wherever I want and I do but I do wait for specialists. My mother had to wait 2 months for a non-emergency neurologist appt. This doc while I'm sure is good isn't on any top 100 list either.

I wanted to see a top breast surgeon and her wait was 2 months as well. I saw her associate and felt very comfortable so there was an alternative.

I don't think what we have here is so freakin wonderful. I fight all the time with insurance/deductibles and co-pays.

My out of pocket expenses are huge for my great insurance. I can only imagine what some people who don't have insurance go through.

Something has to be done and I'm thrilled that it's getting the attention it deserves. I may not agree 100% with whatever plan is enacted but I'm happy that it won't be the status quo.

My letter today will be to the President. I will also include my past letters to my elected officials.

I hope health care reform is given enough time and effort to evolve into a plan that works.

At least I made my voice heard.



Posted 7/31/09 8:51 AM
 

Lillykat
going along for the ride...

Member since 5/05

16253 total posts

Name:

Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform

Posted by smdl

Are people SO naive?

Do people think they get WHATEVER they want right now?


I need a referal for a specialist. I need a pre-authorization for an MRI or CScan.

Insurances are tighting the belt. They are declining procedures, delaying authorization.

You CAN wait 3+ months to see a specialists RIGHT NOW. Sometimes almost 6 months for a specialist in demand. You can wait 4+ hours in an ER RIGHT NOW.

Where the heck have some people been all this time?



The problem is that this is exactly true depending on the insurance plan you do have AND largely the doctors that you see. And it IS a problem and a shame - but a lot of people have top insurance and there is a concern that the standard of that care will go down.

This is why there was a big revolt about the old HIP plan and policies - the plan didn't want to pay the doctors very much so it attracted a larger group of not as good doctors many who weren't board certified and from other countries- who in turn were missing many diagnoses and refusing to send those who needed specialists out, and not giving tests that were clearly indicated. This is also largely a problem with HMOs in general which is why they often cost less money than PPO plans and are less desired when given options. However, there are good doctors in these plans and not so great ones. Some KNOW when it is appropriate to send their patients to see a specialist and others get into trouble b.c they simply don't and they try to treat a patient who they have no business treating. So the problem snowballs.

We are lucky I have not only a good plan - I don't need ANY referrals, I get MRI's etc with authorization BUT they always give it to me no questions asked. I have chosen doctors who are assertive in my care and treatment. They know when to say go see someone and when to treat me themselves. I only wait that 2-3 months to see a specialist if it is minor issue. If I need to see a doctor my PCP gets on the phone with the specialist I want to see and gets me in either the same day or within a week.

I think largely the concern with the gov plan is that a lot of the top doctors (who now take insurance) will no longer take insurance. (Many already do this or refuse to see medicaid patients) so access will be more restricted to those who can pay OOP. Also since they pay the doctors less I think you will find some talented people will choose not to go into the field and the standard of care will go down as was seen in instances of HIP etc.

I know it would be helpful and I would like to see a sort of emergency/sick plan. They don't offer these in NY from what I have found. When we lived in MI they had plans available at a very low cost (affordable to students and those with no jobs etc) that offered 1 annual exam an year, and then would cover sick visits with a very low copay. It also covered hospitalization with a low copay and low deductible. It was a great option for a student, etc b.c it was affordable but gave them something if they did get sick so they wouldn't go into debt to pay for it.

Posted 7/31/09 9:42 AM
 

Cpt2007
A new love!

Member since 1/08

5946 total posts

Name:
Liz

Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform

Posted by MrsMcCannEst42409

Posted by Ophelia
and before people wig out about how "terrible" a govt socialized plan is, look into Medicare and what the benefits and costs are. you may be pleasantly surprised.



If the socialized plan is so fricken fantastic, why do you have people from Canada on waiting lists to be treated?

If the socialized plan is SO great, why do you have my relatives in Cuba without medicine or proper care???????

My Mom is the FIRST reason why I am NOT feeling this plan at all. Just by what she has told me about what she went through in Cuba. Waiting for medicine to come through customs to find that it was taken away by officials. My Sister was sick. There was nothing they could do about it. They just had to sit and suffer.

Ah socialized healthcare. Excellent, isn't it?

BEST part is, that if you Google healthcare in Cuba, they tell you that it's FANTASTIC. Propaganda BS...

It's terrible. It will F up people lives royally. Just wait and see, people. Just wait and seee....



There is a VAST difference b/w what goes on in a Communist dictatorship and what would go on in the worlds largest and most prosperous democracy. We make the drugs IN this country. We don't have to have them shipped in from somewhere else. I don't even know how that comparison or analogy could even be made.

Posted 7/31/09 10:05 AM
 

Cpt2007
A new love!

Member since 1/08

5946 total posts

Name:
Liz

Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform

Posted by Blu-ize

Posted by smdl

Are people SO naive?

Do people think they get WHATEVER they want right now?


I need a referal for a specialist. I need a pre-authorization for an MRI or CScan.

Insurances are tighting the belt. They are declining procedures, delaying authorization.

You CAN wait 3+ months to see a specialists RIGHT NOW. Sometimes almost 6 months for a specialist in demand. You can wait 4+ hours in an ER RIGHT NOW.

Where the heck have some people been all this time?



I wish people would speak from personal experience like this.

While I don't need a referral many, many do. My doctors offices all ask me if I need a referral and I don't but they are usually surprised. I can go wherever I want and I do but I do wait for specialists. My mother had to wait 2 months for a non-emergency neurologist appt. This doc while I'm sure is good isn't on any top 100 list either.

I wanted to see a top breast surgeon and her wait was 2 months as well. I saw her associate and felt very comfortable so there was an alternative.

I don't think what we have here is so freakin wonderful. I fight all the time with insurance/deductibles and co-pays.

My out of pocket expenses are huge for my great insurance. I can only imagine what some people who don't have insurance go through.

Something has to be done and I'm thrilled that it's getting the attention it deserves. I may not agree 100% with whatever plan is enacted but I'm happy that it won't be the status quo.

My letter today will be to the President. I will also include my past letters to my elected officials.

I hope health care reform is given enough time and effort to evolve into a plan that works.

At least I made my voice heard.






Agreed.

When I first started working for the Federal Gov't, I was making less than peanuts. I couldn't afford to live on my own, so I bunked in with some wonderful, generous family that lived 2hrs outside of DC and made that commute back and forth (often being more than 5 hrs a day in all b/c of traffic). I took the cheapest health care plan at the time that I could. It was the epitome of a horrible HMO. I had to get a referral for everything. Couldn't see a specialist unless my own horrible doctor (that was the best of a small selection of other horrible doctors available) said I could.

I had an incident when I thought I was suffering from DVT (deep vein thrombosis, which runs in my family), and after seeing the Attending Physician in the Capitol (our in house dr/nurse's office), they told me to get to a hospital quick to have it looked at. I was scared b/c my HMO didn't really cover ER visits. But I went. After waiting for nearly 5 hrs in the ER waiting room, still in excruiating pain, I was finally seen, and after it was all over, praise the Lord Chat Icon, I was ok. The sonogram reveled that I didn't have DVT. I had to pay with a credit card when I checked out b/c my insurance wouldn't cover a good chunk of the exam costs, and I certainly didnt' have the cash on hand.

The next open season I could (and after a salary increase), I changed to a different plan with better coverage, larger provider network and one that did not require referrals to specialists. I've been with them ever since.

The reason I'm telling this story is that not all insurance programs are as rosy as everyone wants to make them. Health insurance plans, by and large, are "great" until you need to actually use them. That's just the way it goes.

But again, the moral of all of our stories is that something does need to be done. It's got to be a combination of reform and other measures, and it's a failing of our society and the social contract under which we all live to sit back and say "I'm fine, I'm good, don't need to worry about my fellow man. I'm an Island unto myself." With that, I'm posting a John Donne poem, which many of you probably know:

No Man is an Island

No man is an island entire of itself; every man
is a piece of the continent, a part of the main;
if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe
is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as
well as any manner of thy friends or of thine
own were; any man's death diminishes me,
because I am involved in mankind.
And therefore never send to know for whom
the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.

Posted 7/31/09 10:20 AM
 

smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!

Member since 5/06

32461 total posts

Name:
me

Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform

We DO have "good" insurance.

DH's company was bought by a MAJOR corporation. He is not working for a mom and pop business.

After the purchase of his company, the insurance changed. It's was $$$$

In order to maintain our previous insurance the way it was (same benefits, no referal, etc..) it would have cost us about $500 per month. This is insane!

So if a major corporation (which contributes to the cost of insurance) cannot do better than that... then where do we go?

Companies have reduced the contribution to insurance costs. They are asking the employees to pitch in more and more in the costs.

I don't know if the health plan will be good. I really don't. But I do know if DH and I had to "sacrifice" some of the benefits (like needing a referal or not, needing pre-authorization for some procedures), then I cannot imagine people who make a lot less than us and how they can possible be able to afford it.

One of my co-worker got insurance through my job. It's crappy! She pays about $130 per month. She only gets a discount. She had to see a specialist for a procedurel. She is $5000 out of pocket. How can anyone afford this? Luckily we are covered by DH's insurance. Even if I think it's crappy it's better than my work.

Posted 7/31/09 10:24 AM
 

SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!

Member since 3/06

32345 total posts

Name:

Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform

Posted by mommy2Alex

Posted by SweetestOfPeas

Posted by smdl

Are people SO naive?

Do people think they get WHATEVER they want right now?


I need a referal for a specialist. I need a pre-authorization for an MRI or CScan.

Insurances are tighting the belt. They are declining procedures, delaying authorization.

You CAN wait 3+ months to see a specialists RIGHT NOW. Sometimes almost 6 months for a specialist in demand. You can wait 4+ hours in an ER RIGHT NOW.

Where the heck have some people been all this time?

I don't need a referral to a specialist of any kind. and DH and I have not had any long waits to see a specialist. my DH was seen within 15 minutes in the ER at Good Sam when he had a kidney stone.

I waited for 2 months to see a new Doctor I was referred to by a friend, but that is b/c this particular Doctor is in high demand. So I was willing to wait.

It greatly varies and can be dependant on what kind of coverage you have, and where you live.



I agree. I don't have to get any referrals. Had my MRIs 2 days after the DR recommended them and met with a nuerologist within a week of having my MRIs. If people think their insurance companies are PITAs then wait until the government is running it for you. And if you think adding 50 million people into the current program isn't going to cause major waits for Drs and cost us billions of dollars think again. Just look at Massachusetts. Their healthcare plan has put them into billions of dollars in debt, has increased wait times in emergency rooms and Drs. offices and this is just one state.

Yes something needs to be done. Reform, begininng with Tort reform it absurd the amount of friviolous lawsuits in this country. Insurance companies need to be able to sell insurance across state lines in order to make it more competitive. We need tax deductions and more pre-tax medical accounts. I do not believe we need to have a government run program as they government has demonstrated time and time again they run everything into the ground and costs are tenfold what they estimate them to be. Prime examples...Social Securtiy, Medicare/Medicaid.

I could not agree more!!!! Chat Icon ITA

Posted 7/31/09 10:56 AM
 

Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)

Member since 5/06

23378 total posts

Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....

Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform

Posted by Cpt2007

Posted by MrsMcCannEst42409




If the socialized plan is SO great, why do you have my relatives in Cuba without medicine or proper care???????

My Mom is the FIRST reason why I am NOT feeling this plan at all. Just by what she has told me about what she went through in Cuba. Waiting for medicine to come through customs to find that it was taken away by officials. My Sister was sick. There was nothing they could do about it. They just had to sit and suffer.

Ah socialized healthcare. Excellent, isn't it?

BEST part is, that if you Google healthcare in Cuba, they tell you that it's FANTASTIC. Propaganda BS...

It's terrible. It will F up people lives royally. Just wait and see, people. Just wait and seee....



There is a VAST difference b/w what goes on in a Communist dictatorship and what would go on in the worlds largest and most prosperous democracy. We make the drugs IN this country. We don't have to have them shipped in from somewhere else. I don't even know how that comparison or analogy could even be made.



thank you Liz.

I had no idea we were asking Cuba and Canada for their blueprint for their socialized medical plans.

and again, I raise the point of OUR OWN GOVT RUN insurance, MedicARE. we don't need to look at any other socialized country to see how it works for THEM. we have it already, here...and it works pretty darned well for us.

the plan that we all hope will be in existence when we get to our golden years.

like I have said, I've never known a doctor to not accept Medicare. check around at some of the top hospitals in the states (Mayo Clinic, Johns Hopkins)

they ALL accept it.

so a patient with medicare can be seen by the top doctors, in the top hosptial, get the top treatment etc.

the wait is the wait is the wait b/c people WANT to see particular doctors. it's volume that dictates that.

this is of course, provided that they haven't let an HMO get in the middle. Medicare HMOS are notoriously horrible. but that is not the fault of the govt.

Chat Icon

anywho, we can beat this to death forever.

hopefully in the end, we will get something we can all live HEALTHFULLY with. Chat Icon

Posted 7/31/09 11:00 AM
 

smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!

Member since 5/06

32461 total posts

Name:
me

Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform

Posted by mommy2Alex

Posted by SweetestOfPeas

Posted by smdl

Are people SO naive?

Do people think they get WHATEVER they want right now?


I need a referal for a specialist. I need a pre-authorization for an MRI or CScan.

Insurances are tighting the belt. They are declining procedures, delaying authorization.

You CAN wait 3+ months to see a specialists RIGHT NOW. Sometimes almost 6 months for a specialist in demand. You can wait 4+ hours in an ER RIGHT NOW.

Where the heck have some people been all this time?

I don't need a referral to a specialist of any kind. and DH and I have not had any long waits to see a specialist. my DH was seen within 15 minutes in the ER at Good Sam when he had a kidney stone.

I waited for 2 months to see a new Doctor I was referred to by a friend, but that is b/c this particular Doctor is in high demand. So I was willing to wait.

It greatly varies and can be dependant on what kind of coverage you have, and where you live.



I agree. I don't have to get any referrals. Had my MRIs 2 days after the DR recommended them and met with a nuerologist within a week of having my MRIs. If people think their insurance companies are PITAs then wait until the government is running it for you. And if you think adding 50 million people into the current program isn't going to cause major waits for Drs and cost us billions of dollars think again. Just look at Massachusetts. Their healthcare plan has put them into billions of dollars in debt, has increased wait times in emergency rooms and Drs. offices and this is just one state.

Yes something needs to be done. Reform, begininng with Tort reform it absurd the amount of friviolous lawsuits in this country. Insurance companies need to be able to sell insurance across state lines in order to make it more competitive. We need tax deductions and more pre-tax medical accounts. I do not believe we need to have a government run program as they government has demonstrated time and time again they run everything into the ground and costs are tenfold what they estimate them to be. Prime examples...Social Securtiy, Medicare/Medicaid.



What you are saying? That 50 MILLION people should be uncovered so you feel good about your current program?

Do you think this is a sign of progress of a CIVILIZED Country?

What if you sister, mom was one of those 50 MILLION people? Maybe you would feel diffently?

Having people homeless, unemployed with not health covered is NOT a sign of a country that takes care of their citizen.

Message edited 7/31/2009 11:41:33 AM.

Posted 7/31/09 11:40 AM
 

mrsej
The cutest!

Member since 1/07

2495 total posts

Name:
Mommy

Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform

Posted by mommy2Alex

Posted by SweetestOfPeas

Posted by smdl

Are people SO naive?

Do people think they get WHATEVER they want right now?


I need a referal for a specialist. I need a pre-authorization for an MRI or CScan.

Insurances are tighting the belt. They are declining procedures, delaying authorization.

You CAN wait 3+ months to see a specialists RIGHT NOW. Sometimes almost 6 months for a specialist in demand. You can wait 4+ hours in an ER RIGHT NOW.

Where the heck have some people been all this time?

I don't need a referral to a specialist of any kind. and DH and I have not had any long waits to see a specialist. my DH was seen within 15 minutes in the ER at Good Sam when he had a kidney stone.

I waited for 2 months to see a new Doctor I was referred to by a friend, but that is b/c this particular Doctor is in high demand. So I was willing to wait.

It greatly varies and can be dependant on what kind of coverage you have, and where you live.



I agree. I don't have to get any referrals. Had my MRIs 2 days after the DR recommended them and met with a nuerologist within a week of having my MRIs. If people think their insurance companies are PITAs then wait until the government is running it for you. And if you think adding 50 million people into the current program isn't going to cause major waits for Drs and cost us billions of dollars think again. Just look at Massachusetts. Their healthcare plan has put them into billions of dollars in debt, has increased wait times in emergency rooms and Drs. offices and this is just one state.

Yes something needs to be done. Reform, begininng with Tort reform it absurd the amount of friviolous lawsuits in this country. Insurance companies need to be able to sell insurance across state lines in order to make it more competitive. We need tax deductions and more pre-tax medical accounts. I do not believe we need to have a government run program as they government has demonstrated time and time again they run everything into the ground and costs are tenfold what they estimate them to be. Prime examples...Social Securtiy, Medicare/Medicaid.



ITA - great post.

Posted 7/31/09 11:52 AM
 

mommy2Alex
3 babies for me :)

Member since 5/05

6679 total posts

Name:

Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform

Posted by smdl

Posted by mommy2Alex

Posted by SweetestOfPeas

Posted by smdl

Are people SO naive?

Do people think they get WHATEVER they want right now?


I need a referal for a specialist. I need a pre-authorization for an MRI or CScan.

Insurances are tighting the belt. They are declining procedures, delaying authorization.

You CAN wait 3+ months to see a specialists RIGHT NOW. Sometimes almost 6 months for a specialist in demand. You can wait 4+ hours in an ER RIGHT NOW.

Where the heck have some people been all this time?

I don't need a referral to a specialist of any kind. and DH and I have not had any long waits to see a specialist. my DH was seen within 15 minutes in the ER at Good Sam when he had a kidney stone.

I waited for 2 months to see a new Doctor I was referred to by a friend, but that is b/c this particular Doctor is in high demand. So I was willing to wait.

It greatly varies and can be dependant on what kind of coverage you have, and where you live.



I agree. I don't have to get any referrals. Had my MRIs 2 days after the DR recommended them and met with a nuerologist within a week of having my MRIs. If people think their insurance companies are PITAs then wait until the government is running it for you. And if you think adding 50 million people into the current program isn't going to cause major waits for Drs and cost us billions of dollars think again. Just look at Massachusetts. Their healthcare plan has put them into billions of dollars in debt, has increased wait times in emergency rooms and Drs. offices and this is just one state.

Yes something needs to be done. Reform, begininng with Tort reform it absurd the amount of friviolous lawsuits in this country. Insurance companies need to be able to sell insurance across state lines in order to make it more competitive. We need tax deductions and more pre-tax medical accounts. I do not believe we need to have a government run program as they government has demonstrated time and time again they run everything into the ground and costs are tenfold what they estimate them to be. Prime examples...Social Securtiy, Medicare/Medicaid.



What you are saying? That 50 MILLION people should be uncovered so you feel good about your current program?

Do you think this is a sign of progress of a CIVILIZED Country?

What if you sister, mom was one of those 50 MILLION people? Maybe you would feel diffently?

Having people homeless, unemployed with not health covered is NOT a sign of a country that takes care of their citizen.



I did not say that I don't want the 50 milliion people who aren't covered not to have health insurance but for it to be more affordable for them to buy it for themselves. And please do not pretend to understand where my family comes from. I didn't have health insurance when I was a kid. I got it when I started working in Mandees at age 16 and worked 25 hours a week while in hs to qualify. Then in college I was again uninsured. My parents are small business owners who just were able to afford health insurance a few years ago and pay $1000 a month for their coverage....and guess what my parents are against a government sponsered plan. What I would like to see is to make it more affordable for all Americans to purchase insurance for themselves. The insurance DH companies provides isn't cheap and we chose a plan that allowed us to see any Dr we wanted without referrals, etc. We could have chosen a cheaper plan to save a few bucks but for us it was more important to pay more.

I don't believe it is the government's responsibility to bring social/economic equality to every citizen. This isn't Utopia nor will it ever be. America was founded on Capitalism, and limited government and not socialism/communism. Unfortunately, there were always be those less fortunate. That is reality. That is why charities are formed to help those in need and allow those who can afford to to donate their hard earned money. I don't feel the need to mortgage my grandchildrens futures and taxing the middle class to acheive some economic equality. To me that is Communism, which has proven itself ineffective. I know I will get flamed for this but it should be a person's choice to help those in need or our neighbor. Not to be taxed to death and forced to support the entire nation. When the income tax was formed it was to tax the middle class at 1% and the rich at 7% and promises where made to not go above 10%. There have been times (in the 50s) where the tax rate on the rich has been 90%. It is absurd. I don't want higher taxes and this is what the healthcare bill will do. Raise our taxes. There is no way around that. They may say otherwise now, but there is no way healthcare will pay for itself.

OK flame away.

Posted 7/31/09 5:25 PM
 

annoyedTTCer
LIF Adult

Member since 4/09

3272 total posts

Name:

Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform

Posted by smdl

Posted by mommy2Alex

Posted by SweetestOfPeas

Posted by smdl

Are people SO naive?

Do people think they get WHATEVER they want right now?


I need a referal for a specialist. I need a pre-authorization for an MRI or CScan.

Insurances are tighting the belt. They are declining procedures, delaying authorization.

You CAN wait 3+ months to see a specialists RIGHT NOW. Sometimes almost 6 months for a specialist in demand. You can wait 4+ hours in an ER RIGHT NOW.

Where the heck have some people been all this time?

I don't need a referral to a specialist of any kind. and DH and I have not had any long waits to see a specialist. my DH was seen within 15 minutes in the ER at Good Sam when he had a kidney stone.

I waited for 2 months to see a new Doctor I was referred to by a friend, but that is b/c this particular Doctor is in high demand. So I was willing to wait.

It greatly varies and can be dependant on what kind of coverage you have, and where you live.



I agree. I don't have to get any referrals. Had my MRIs 2 days after the DR recommended them and met with a nuerologist within a week of having my MRIs. If people think their insurance companies are PITAs then wait until the government is running it for you. And if you think adding 50 million people into the current program isn't going to cause major waits for Drs and cost us billions of dollars think again. Just look at Massachusetts. Their healthcare plan has put them into billions of dollars in debt, has increased wait times in emergency rooms and Drs. offices and this is just one state.

Yes something needs to be done. Reform, begininng with Tort reform it absurd the amount of friviolous lawsuits in this country. Insurance companies need to be able to sell insurance across state lines in order to make it more competitive. We need tax deductions and more pre-tax medical accounts. I do not believe we need to have a government run program as they government has demonstrated time and time again they run everything into the ground and costs are tenfold what they estimate them to be. Prime examples...Social Securtiy, Medicare/Medicaid.



What you are saying? That 50 MILLION people should be uncovered so you feel good about your current program?

Do you think this is a sign of progress of a CIVILIZED Country?

What if you sister, mom was one of those 50 MILLION people? Maybe you would feel diffently?

Having people homeless, unemployed with not health covered is NOT a sign of a country that takes care of their citizen.



Where are you coming up with 50 million figure?

You do know that many uninsured people chose to skip insurace because they are young and would rather have the money for other things.

For information on uninsured people this is a very informative read

http://www.businessword.com/index.php?/weblog/comments/2303/

Posted 7/31/09 5:52 PM
 

SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!

Member since 3/06

32345 total posts

Name:

Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform

Posted by mommy2Alex

Posted by smdl

Posted by mommy2Alex

Posted by SweetestOfPeas

Posted by smdl

Are people SO naive?

Do people think they get WHATEVER they want right now?


I need a referal for a specialist. I need a pre-authorization for an MRI or CScan.

Insurances are tighting the belt. They are declining procedures, delaying authorization.

You CAN wait 3+ months to see a specialists RIGHT NOW. Sometimes almost 6 months for a specialist in demand. You can wait 4+ hours in an ER RIGHT NOW.

Where the heck have some people been all this time?

I don't need a referral to a specialist of any kind. and DH and I have not had any long waits to see a specialist. my DH was seen within 15 minutes in the ER at Good Sam when he had a kidney stone.

I waited for 2 months to see a new Doctor I was referred to by a friend, but that is b/c this particular Doctor is in high demand. So I was willing to wait.

It greatly varies and can be dependant on what kind of coverage you have, and where you live.



I agree. I don't have to get any referrals. Had my MRIs 2 days after the DR recommended them and met with a nuerologist within a week of having my MRIs. If people think their insurance companies are PITAs then wait until the government is running it for you. And if you think adding 50 million people into the current program isn't going to cause major waits for Drs and cost us billions of dollars think again. Just look at Massachusetts. Their healthcare plan has put them into billions of dollars in debt, has increased wait times in emergency rooms and Drs. offices and this is just one state.

Yes something needs to be done. Reform, begininng with Tort reform it absurd the amount of friviolous lawsuits in this country. Insurance companies need to be able to sell insurance across state lines in order to make it more competitive. We need tax deductions and more pre-tax medical accounts. I do not believe we need to have a government run program as they government has demonstrated time and time again they run everything into the ground and costs are tenfold what they estimate them to be. Prime examples...Social Securtiy, Medicare/Medicaid.



What you are saying? That 50 MILLION people should be uncovered so you feel good about your current program?

Do you think this is a sign of progress of a CIVILIZED Country?

What if you sister, mom was one of those 50 MILLION people? Maybe you would feel diffently?

Having people homeless, unemployed with not health covered is NOT a sign of a country that takes care of their citizen.



I did not say that I don't want the 50 milliion people who aren't covered not to have health insurance but for it to be more affordable for them to buy it for themselves. And please do not pretend to understand where my family comes from. I didn't have health insurance when I was a kid. I got it when I started working in Mandees at age 16 and worked 25 hours a week while in hs to qualify. Then in college I was again uninsured. My parents are small business owners who just were able to afford health insurance a few years ago and pay $1000 a month for their coverage....and guess what my parents are against a government sponsered plan. What I would like to see is to make it more affordable for all Americans to purchase insurance for themselves. The insurance DH companies provides isn't cheap and we chose a plan that allowed us to see any Dr we wanted without referrals, etc. We could have chosen a cheaper plan to save a few bucks but for us it was more important to pay more.

I don't believe it is the government's responsibility to bring social/economic equality to every citizen. This isn't Utopia nor will it ever be. America was founded on Capitalism, and limited government and not socialism/communism. Unfortunately, there were always be those less fortunate. That is reality. That is why charities are formed to help those in need and allow those who can afford to to donate their hard earned money. I don't feel the need to mortgage my grandchildrens futures and taxing the middle class to acheive some economic equality. To me that is Communism, which has proven itself ineffective. I know I will get flamed for this but it should be a person's choice to help those in need or our neighbor. Not to be taxed to death and forced to support the entire nation. When the income tax was formed it was to tax the middle class at 1% and the rich at 7% and promises where made to not go above 10%. There have been times (in the 50s) where the tax rate on the rich has been 90%. It is absurd. I don't want higher taxes and this is what the healthcare bill will do. Raise our taxes. There is no way around that. They may say otherwise now, but there is no way healthcare will pay for itself.

OK flame away.



no flames from me!

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Posted 7/31/09 6:07 PM
 

twiceasnice
LIF Adult

Member since 2/08

1126 total posts

Name:

Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform

Posted by mommy2Alex

I did not say that I don't want the 50 milliion people who aren't covered not to have health insurance but for it to be more affordable for them to buy it for themselves. And please do not pretend to understand where my family comes from. I didn't have health insurance when I was a kid. I got it when I started working in Mandees at age 16 and worked 25 hours a week while in hs to qualify. Then in college I was again uninsured. My parents are small business owners who just were able to afford health insurance a few years ago and pay $1000 a month for their coverage....and guess what my parents are against a government sponsered plan. What I would like to see is to make it more affordable for all Americans to purchase insurance for themselves. The insurance DH companies provides isn't cheap and we chose a plan that allowed us to see any Dr we wanted without referrals, etc. We could have chosen a cheaper plan to save a few bucks but for us it was more important to pay more.

I don't believe it is the government's responsibility to bring social/economic equality to every citizen. This isn't Utopia nor will it ever be. America was founded on Capitalism, and limited government and not socialism/communism. Unfortunately, there were always be those less fortunate. That is reality. That is why charities are formed to help those in need and allow those who can afford to to donate their hard earned money. I don't feel the need to mortgage my grandchildrens futures and taxing the middle class to acheive some economic equality. To me that is Communism, which has proven itself ineffective. I know I will get flamed for this but it should be a person's choice to help those in need or our neighbor. Not to be taxed to death and forced to support the entire nation. When the income tax was formed it was to tax the middle class at 1% and the rich at 7% and promises where made to not go above 10%. There have been times (in the 50s) where the tax rate on the rich has been 90%. It is absurd. I don't want higher taxes and this is what the healthcare bill will do. Raise our taxes. There is no way around that. They may say otherwise now, but there is no way healthcare will pay for itself.

OK flame away.



Chat Icon Very nicely put

My father is a small business owner, I too never had insurance growing up. He still doesn't have insurance and he doesn't plan on getting it.
The first time I had full coverage was when I was 23. I treated myself to my first teeth cleaning Chat Icon.

As for your views I share them completely. I could not have said it better myself.

Posted 7/31/09 9:34 PM
 

Deedlebugs
Blessed

Member since 12/05

10281 total posts

Name:
Kiki

Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform

Posted by mommy2Alex


I did not say that I don't want the 50 milliion people who aren't covered not to have health insurance but for it to be more affordable for them to buy it for themselves. And please do not pretend to understand where my family comes from. I didn't have health insurance when I was a kid. I got it when I started working in Mandees at age 16 and worked 25 hours a week while in hs to qualify. Then in college I was again uninsured. My parents are small business owners who just were able to afford health insurance a few years ago and pay $1000 a month for their coverage....and guess what my parents are against a government sponsered plan. What I would like to see is to make it more affordable for all Americans to purchase insurance for themselves. The insurance DH companies provides isn't cheap and we chose a plan that allowed us to see any Dr we wanted without referrals, etc. We could have chosen a cheaper plan to save a few bucks but for us it was more important to pay more.

I don't believe it is the government's responsibility to bring social/economic equality to every citizen. This isn't Utopia nor will it ever be. America was founded on Capitalism, and limited government and not socialism/communism. Unfortunately, there were always be those less fortunate. That is reality. That is why charities are formed to help those in need and allow those who can afford to to donate their hard earned money. I don't feel the need to mortgage my grandchildrens futures and taxing the middle class to acheive some economic equality. To me that is Communism, which has proven itself ineffective. I know I will get flamed for this but it should be a person's choice to help those in need or our neighbor. Not to be taxed to death and forced to support the entire nation. When the income tax was formed it was to tax the middle class at 1% and the rich at 7% and promises where made to not go above 10%. There have been times (in the 50s) where the tax rate on the rich has been 90%. It is absurd. I don't want higher taxes and this is what the healthcare bill will do. Raise our taxes. There is no way around that. They may say otherwise now, but there is no way healthcare will pay for itself.

OK flame away.




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Thank you!

Posted 7/31/09 10:23 PM
 

smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!

Member since 5/06

32461 total posts

Name:
me

Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform

I hear a lot of "I don't want". Yet I hear a lot of people losing their jobs, losing their house. Not being happy! Were people happy with Bush? Really?

I would love for someone to tell me what their "Solution" would be.

If someone does not fix it. What do you propose?

Posted 7/31/09 10:27 PM
 

Mommy2Boys
My Boys!!!!

Member since 6/06

14437 total posts

Name:
C

Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform

Posted by NinasMommy

Posted by mommy2Alex


I did not say that I don't want the 50 milliion people who aren't covered not to have health insurance but for it to be more affordable for them to buy it for themselves. And please do not pretend to understand where my family comes from. I didn't have health insurance when I was a kid. I got it when I started working in Mandees at age 16 and worked 25 hours a week while in hs to qualify. Then in college I was again uninsured. My parents are small business owners who just were able to afford health insurance a few years ago and pay $1000 a month for their coverage....and guess what my parents are against a government sponsered plan. What I would like to see is to make it more affordable for all Americans to purchase insurance for themselves. The insurance DH companies provides isn't cheap and we chose a plan that allowed us to see any Dr we wanted without referrals, etc. We could have chosen a cheaper plan to save a few bucks but for us it was more important to pay more.

I don't believe it is the government's responsibility to bring social/economic equality to every citizen. This isn't Utopia nor will it ever be. America was founded on Capitalism, and limited government and not socialism/communism. Unfortunately, there were always be those less fortunate. That is reality. That is why charities are formed to help those in need and allow those who can afford to to donate their hard earned money. I don't feel the need to mortgage my grandchildrens futures and taxing the middle class to acheive some economic equality. To me that is Communism, which has proven itself ineffective. I know I will get flamed for this but it should be a person's choice to help those in need or our neighbor. Not to be taxed to death and forced to support the entire nation. When the income tax was formed it was to tax the middle class at 1% and the rich at 7% and promises where made to not go above 10%. There have been times (in the 50s) where the tax rate on the rich has been 90%. It is absurd. I don't want higher taxes and this is what the healthcare bill will do. Raise our taxes. There is no way around that. They may say otherwise now, but there is no way healthcare will pay for itself.

OK flame away.




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Thank you!





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ETA: When my grandparents came to this country they came with nothing and had to WORK for everything they had and have. They didnt get any hand outs. Come to think of it, they actually had to learn ENGLISH to live and survive here Chat Icon

Today, alot of people dont want to work for anything. They want hand outs. They want our tax dollars to support them...to pay for their food, their housing, their health insurance, their kids to go to school. *** is going on in this country that this is now acceptable? Why do you think so many people come to America b/c they know we are s*ckers and will give them everything.

Message edited 8/1/2009 11:23:36 AM.

Posted 8/1/09 11:13 AM
 

SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!

Member since 3/06

32345 total posts

Name:

Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform

Posted by jellybean1420

Posted by NinasMommy

Posted by mommy2Alex


I did not say that I don't want the 50 milliion people who aren't covered not to have health insurance but for it to be more affordable for them to buy it for themselves. And please do not pretend to understand where my family comes from. I didn't have health insurance when I was a kid. I got it when I started working in Mandees at age 16 and worked 25 hours a week while in hs to qualify. Then in college I was again uninsured. My parents are small business owners who just were able to afford health insurance a few years ago and pay $1000 a month for their coverage....and guess what my parents are against a government sponsered plan. What I would like to see is to make it more affordable for all Americans to purchase insurance for themselves. The insurance DH companies provides isn't cheap and we chose a plan that allowed us to see any Dr we wanted without referrals, etc. We could have chosen a cheaper plan to save a few bucks but for us it was more important to pay more.

I don't believe it is the government's responsibility to bring social/economic equality to every citizen. This isn't Utopia nor will it ever be. America was founded on Capitalism, and limited government and not socialism/communism. Unfortunately, there were always be those less fortunate. That is reality. That is why charities are formed to help those in need and allow those who can afford to to donate their hard earned money. I don't feel the need to mortgage my grandchildrens futures and taxing the middle class to acheive some economic equality. To me that is Communism, which has proven itself ineffective. I know I will get flamed for this but it should be a person's choice to help those in need or our neighbor. Not to be taxed to death and forced to support the entire nation. When the income tax was formed it was to tax the middle class at 1% and the rich at 7% and promises where made to not go above 10%. There have been times (in the 50s) where the tax rate on the rich has been 90%. It is absurd. I don't want higher taxes and this is what the healthcare bill will do. Raise our taxes. There is no way around that. They may say otherwise now, but there is no way healthcare will pay for itself.

OK flame away.




Chat Icon Chat Icon Chat Icon Chat Icon Chat Icon Chat Icon Chat Icon Chat Icon Chat Icon

Thank you!





Chat Icon Chat Icon Chat Icon Chat Icon Chat Icon Chat Icon Chat Icon Chat Icon Chat Icon Chat Icon Chat Icon


ETA: When my grandparents came to this country they came with nothing and had to WORK for everything they had and have. They didnt get any hand outs. Come to think of it, they actually had to learn ENGLISH to live and survive here Chat Icon

Today, alot of people dont want to work for anything. They want hand outs. They want our tax dollars to support them...to pay for their food, their housing, their health insurance, their kids to go to school. *** is going on in this country that this is now acceptable? Why do you think so many people come to America b/c they know we are s*ckers and will give them everything.


when my Dad moved to the US in the 60's after already being married to my Mom (they got married in Israel) he still had to go through the legal process of becoming a citizen, which took 2 years. and he HAD to learn English. he went to night school for a year to do so. and in order to get your drivers license, you had to take the written portion in ENGLISH. wow - can you imagine that?? he actually had to learn the native language of where he was moving to

Message edited 8/1/2009 11:32:05 AM.

Posted 8/1/09 11:31 AM
 

klingklang77
Das Ende der Welt

Member since 7/06

9365 total posts

Name:
Völlig losgelöst

Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform

Off topic but there is no official language for the US.

Posted 8/1/09 11:44 AM
 

Deedlebugs
Blessed

Member since 12/05

10281 total posts

Name:
Kiki

Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform

Posted by klingklang77

Off topic but there is no official language for the US.



...and thats a shame Chat Icon

Posted 8/2/09 9:56 AM
 
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