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monkeybride
My Everything
Member since 5/05 20541 total posts
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Sorry but no. While I think our system can use some kind of revamping to make health care more accessible I think the level of care in this country would go way down if we switched to socialized medicine.
Just look at the difference between public and private hospitals. No thank you.
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Posted 8/31/08 2:39 PM  |
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sunnyplus3
:)
Member since 11/05 8749 total posts
Name:
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by browneyedgirl
oh heck no! never ever ever!!
i have family in europe and they HATE the socialized medicine. they complain about it left and right. my SIL's mother is dying due to the shoddy "care" she is receiving. it's awful what is happening to her. and then my SIL's delivery of her son...another distaster! my BIL (who is american) won't even go to the doctors there.
i love my health insurance and wouldn't change it for anything. i get excellent and immediate care.
you're a teacher right? IMO LI teachers, civil servants/police officers really have no clue what its like to pay for insurance like people in the private sector do. Your unions have you locked into sweet group plans that the rest of us could never get.
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| Posted 8/31/08 3:53 PM |
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steph4777
**************
Member since 5/05 11726 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
I don't know enough about socialized healthcare to say yes/no, but I do know that something needs to be done about the cost of insurance. It's a shame that the in "wealthiest" country in the world that 40+ million of it's people can't afford to have insurance.
Unfortunately we recently had to decide whether or not we would insure DH under my plan when he decided to start his own law practice after not being able to find a job. I work for a really small design agency with only 13 people, so I guess we are lucky that it's even an option. If we chose to insure all 4 of us we'd have to pay $1100/month, but if it was just me and the kids it was $700/month. We actually made the choice not to cover DH bc we couldn't afford not to have $400/month since we were depending on my salary until his practice picked up. It's a decision we agonized about for weeks, but it was the choice we had to make for our family at the time.
A couple of months ago, I had another job offer and was able to get my current employer to up my salary by $500/month in return for me to stay. It was really great that it worked out like that, so now DH is covered. It's so disheartening that two young professionals with advanced degrees had to consciously make the decision to go without insurance. Our situation worked out but many others are not so lucky.
Message edited 8/31/2008 6:26:19 PM.
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| Posted 8/31/08 6:24 PM |
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11486 total posts
Name:
Völlig losgelöst
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by klingklang77
Posted by mcl916
Oh and I just wanted to ask- how does a socialized system work for those unemployed or illegal? Does the rest of the country support them?
If you are unemployed and a resident you get health insurance. I have no idea about illegal residents, b/c Australia is VERY strict about illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants aren't really a huge problem here and I don't know how they would go to the doctor, b/c you have to show your medicare (our health care system here) card. Immigration is very strict and I don't even know how they could even stay here without some sort of visa.
Sorry I can't totally answer your question- hubby is asleep and it is 1 am here  .
I wish the US had a strict immigration policy!
the way I see it - you can't have it all and you certainly can't please everyone.
the bottom line is that the money has to come from somewhere.
people in the US are already struggling making ends meet b/c of higher oil prices. imagine if they got to keep even less of their income b/c of socialized healthcare. the standard of living in the US would go way down IMO. the poor in this country would be in even worse shape. the only one's who would benefit are the 47M without insurance. and that is about 15% of the population here.
Well in a way people being able to afford it comes down to the minimum wage, IMO. Is it still $5.75 an hour? I really think that needs to be changed, but that is a whole other topic.
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| Posted 8/31/08 6:56 PM |
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justbeachy
So close....
Member since 7/07 2900 total posts
Name:
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
no
thats all.
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| Posted 8/31/08 7:17 PM |
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monkeybride
My Everything
Member since 5/05 20541 total posts
Name:
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by KellyFG
Posted by browneyedgirl
oh heck no! never ever ever!!
i have family in europe and they HATE the socialized medicine. they complain about it left and right. my SIL's mother is dying due to the shoddy "care" she is receiving. it's awful what is happening to her. and then my SIL's delivery of her son...another distaster! my BIL (who is american) won't even go to the doctors there.
i love my health insurance and wouldn't change it for anything. i get excellent and immediate care.
you're a teacher right? IMO LI teachers, civil servants/police officers really have no clue what its like to pay for insurance like people in the private sector do. Your unions have you locked into sweet group plans that the rest of us could never get.
We're private sector and I feel like we have decent options. By choice we have plans with deductibles and such but HMO's are always a cheaper option.
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| Posted 8/31/08 7:22 PM |
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annie
This is how I play basketball!
Member since 6/05 1980 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
as far as I know, the OP's statistics are incorrect. There would not be a 45% increase in taxes. Nothing near that, according to the plans that Senator Clinton had proposed (sort of a quasi-universal health care), which I would totally support.
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| Posted 8/31/08 7:30 PM |
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neenie
Member since 5/05 22351 total posts
Name:
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by annie
as far as I know, the OP's statistics are incorrect. There would not be a 45% increase in taxes. Nothing near that, according to the plans that Senator Clinton had proposed (sort of a quasi-universal health care), which I would totally support.
She didnt say a 45% increase, she said that it would bring the avg person UP TO 45% being taken out of their checks.
to answer the question- No. Not at all.
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| Posted 8/31/08 7:51 PM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by annie
as far as I know, the OP's statistics are incorrect. There would not be a 45% increase in taxes. Nothing near that, according to the plans that Senator Clinton had proposed (sort of a quasi-universal health care), which I would totally support.
my stats are pretty on par with what they pay in countries with socialized healthcare. I didn't say it would go up 45%. what I said was that your income would get taxed approx 45% - instead of what it gets taxed now.
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| Posted 8/31/08 7:59 PM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by neenie
Posted by annie
as far as I know, the OP's statistics are incorrect. There would not be a 45% increase in taxes. Nothing near that, according to the plans that Senator Clinton had proposed (sort of a quasi-universal health care), which I would totally support.
She didnt say a 45% increase, she said that it would bring the avg person UP TO 45% being taken out of their checks.
to answer the question- No. Not at all.
oops, spoke too soon. thanks
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| Posted 8/31/08 7:59 PM |
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browneyedgirl
family is all that matters
Member since 6/06 6513 total posts
Name:
browneyes
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by KellyFG
Posted by browneyedgirl
oh heck no! never ever ever!!
i have family in europe and they HATE the socialized medicine. they complain about it left and right. my SIL's mother is dying due to the shoddy "care" she is receiving. it's awful what is happening to her. and then my SIL's delivery of her son...another distaster! my BIL (who is american) won't even go to the doctors there.
i love my health insurance and wouldn't change it for anything. i get excellent and immediate care.
you're a teacher right? IMO LI teachers, civil servants/police officers really have no clue what its like to pay for insurance like people in the private sector do. Your unions have you locked into sweet group plans that the rest of us could never get.
IMO you have no clue what i know or don't know. as a matter of fact i'm under DH's insurance thanks. he's private sector. glad people always like to speak for others.
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| Posted 8/31/08 8:46 PM |
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sunnyplus3
:)
Member since 11/05 8749 total posts
Name:
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by browneyedgirl
Posted by KellyFG
you're a teacher right? IMO LI teachers, civil servants/police officers really have no clue what its like to pay for insurance like people in the private sector do. Your unions have you locked into sweet group plans that the rest of us could never get.
IMO you have no clue what i know or don't know. as a matter of fact i'm under DH's insurance thanks. he's private sector. glad people always like to speak for others.
I don't know how you think people are "speaking for you" I asked if you are a teacher because you've mentioned MANY times you are and I SAID "IN MY OPINION teachers & other emploees with great unions have better plans than the private sector."
Let me further clarify by saying that the execption to that is private sector people that work for very large companies.
I do not know one self employed person or employee for a SMALL private business that is 100% happy with their health insurance plan. If you disagree that would be YOUR OPINION, not you speaking for me.
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| Posted 8/31/08 9:05 PM |
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Beth
The Key to your new home....
Member since 2/06 24849 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
I have to say- growing up as the daughter of 2 teachers
my level of insurace has done nothing but go DOWN
and I have worked for some large and small public and private companies in the last 6 years
when my Mom got sick- we didn't pay 1 cent out of pocket for her close to $2 MILLION in medical bills
she never had to fight to get things approved
I spend at least 1 hour on the phone weekly with our current insurace company- fighting something or trying to fix a mistake
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| Posted 8/31/08 9:08 PM |
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passerby
LIF Zygote
Member since 8/08 47 total posts
Name:
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by KellyFG
Posted by browneyedgirl
oh heck no! never ever ever!!
i have family in europe and they HATE the socialized medicine. they complain about it left and right. my SIL's mother is dying due to the shoddy "care" she is receiving. it's awful what is happening to her. and then my SIL's delivery of her son...another distaster! my BIL (who is american) won't even go to the doctors there.
i love my health insurance and wouldn't change it for anything. i get excellent and immediate care.
you're a teacher right? IMO LI teachers, civil servants/police officers really have no clue what its like to pay for insurance like people in the private sector do. Your unions have you locked into sweet group plans that the rest of us could never get.
You opted for a higher salary in the private sector instead of benefits and security. If you would like I hear the NYPD has a test coming up in October.
Message edited 8/31/2008 9:23:02 PM.
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| Posted 8/31/08 9:22 PM |
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passerby
LIF Zygote
Member since 8/08 47 total posts
Name:
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by AmyG13
Posted by passerby
when did having insurance become right?
When did seeking medical care become a privilege?
Its not a right or a privilege it is an option. you have a right to purchase healthcare or get a job that provides it. We have a right to own guns but the government doesn't have to provide them to us.
My lipa bill and auto insurance is thru the roof should the government provide that too?
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| Posted 8/31/08 9:26 PM |
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sunnyplus3
:)
Member since 11/05 8749 total posts
Name:
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by passerby
Posted by KellyFG
Posted by browneyedgirl
oh heck no! never ever ever!!
i have family in europe and they HATE the socialized medicine. they complain about it left and right. my SIL's mother is dying due to the shoddy "care" she is receiving. it's awful what is happening to her. and then my SIL's delivery of her son...another distaster! my BIL (who is american) won't even go to the doctors there.
i love my health insurance and wouldn't change it for anything. i get excellent and immediate care.
you're a teacher right? IMO LI teachers, civil servants/police officers really have no clue what its like to pay for insurance like people in the private sector do. Your unions have you locked into sweet group plans that the rest of us could never get.
You opted for a higher salary in the private sector instead of benefits and security. If you would like I hear the NYPD has a test coming up in October.
Maybe I'm not typing clearly, I said LONG ISLAND teachers, police & cival servants. And NO I didn't opt for a higher salary, my benefits have decreased every year while my premium went up. My employer contribution did not increase in TEN years.
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| Posted 8/31/08 9:39 PM |
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AmyG13
LIF Infant
Member since 12/07 159 total posts
Name:
Amy
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by passerby
Posted by AmyG13
Posted by passerby
when did having insurance become right?
When did seeking medical care become a privilege?
Its not a right or a privilege it is an option. you have a right to purchase healthcare or get a job that provides it. We have a right to own guns but the government doesn't have to provide them to us.
My lipa bill and auto insurance is thru the roof should the government provide that too?
Having a home and paying utilities is an OPTION. You could rent an all inclusive apartment, have a smaller home. Having a car and paying insurance is an OPTION. You could take a bus or a train or ride a bike. But when you get sick or injured, medical care is NOT an option, it's a necessity, and it should be available to everyone.
Fewer and fewer employers are offering benefits these days, so for many people that kind of job is not an option.
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| Posted 8/31/08 10:27 PM |
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neenie
Member since 5/05 22351 total posts
Name:
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by AmyG13
medical care is NOT an option, it's a necessity, and it should be available to everyone.
Medical care IS available to everyone. It is illegal for a hospital/Dr to deny treating you based on ability to pay. There's a difference between medical care and medical insurance- That's where (i believe) the other poster was referring to there being options.
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| Posted 8/31/08 11:09 PM |
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dm24angel
Happiness
Member since 5/05 34581 total posts
Name:
Donna
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by neenie
Posted by AmyG13
medical care is NOT an option, it's a necessity, and it should be available to everyone.
Medical care IS available to everyone. It is illegal for a hospital/Dr to deny treating you based on ability to pay. There's a difference between medical care and medical insurance- That's where (i believe) the other poster was referring to there being options.
But While medical care is a neccesity , and yes available...for me..I would avoid going to the hospital for ex. In some situations till it was too late b/c I dont want to pay the deductible.
Happened the other day. The Dr. Wanted me to go to the ER and I didnt think I was sick enough to pay a $75 co pay, so I didnt.
I'm afraid of those in WORSE situations and how they feel.
We are denied all types of things based on our "income" ....Our gross income is a JOKE....after our health insurance, and taxes etc of course, we are making Next to nothing.
I feel this is wrong and will accept any change for the better.
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| Posted 8/31/08 11:30 PM |
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neenie
Member since 5/05 22351 total posts
Name:
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by dm24angel
But While medical care is a neccesity , and yes available...for me..I would avoid going to the hospital for ex. In some situations till it was too late b/c I dont want to pay the deductible.
Happened the other day. The Dr. Wanted me to go to the ER and I didnt think I was sick enough to pay a $75 co pay, so I didnt.
ITA that we need MANY changes made to the healthcare system in this country, but i don't think socialized medicine is the answer. I dont think socialized anything is ever the answer.
I understand your frustration, but i also wonder WHAT people think would make this better. I mean, $75 is not pocket change, but it's also not alot to pay for you health. People put away money for vacations, they buy clothes, toys, etc (i'm not even saying anything extravvagant, just more than whats 'necessary'), but no one wants to lay out any $$ for healthcare coverage. If $75 is a hard hit to the pocket, how can the government taking THOUSANDS more out of your paycheck made life any easier? I don't get it. Like i said- i agree that we need changes made, but i do not see THIS as the answer.
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| Posted 8/31/08 11:43 PM |
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dm24angel
Happiness
Member since 5/05 34581 total posts
Name:
Donna
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by neenie
Posted by dm24angel
But While medical care is a neccesity , and yes available...for me..I would avoid going to the hospital for ex. In some situations till it was too late b/c I dont want to pay the deductible.
Happened the other day. The Dr. Wanted me to go to the ER and I didnt think I was sick enough to pay a $75 co pay, so I didnt.
ITA that we need MANY changes made to the healthcare system in this country, but i don't think socialized medicine is the answer. I dont think socialized anything is ever the answer.
I understand your frustration, but i also wonder WHAT people think would make this better. I mean, $75 is not pocket change, but it's also not alot to pay for you health. People put away money for vacations, they buy clothes, toys, etc (i'm not even saying anything extravvagant, just more than whats 'necessary'), but no one wants to lay out any $$ for healthcare coverage. If $75 is a hard hit to the pocket, how can the government taking THOUSANDS more out of your paycheck made life any easier? I don't get it. Like i said- i agree that we need changes made, but i do not see THIS as the answer.
I dont think its the answer really either, but if it could be done well, I might be interested.
The reason people will spend $75 on other things is because it leads to immediate happiness....example.....My own situation above. I actually went out to dinner that same night. I said, dinner or co pay. I felt "ok" and wanted to spend time with friends badly, so I opted for instant gratification.
But While the $75 is just an example. My MIL has HORRID insurance. She has needed a certain surgery , not life threatening but could get worse over the years , for a LONG time...and she wont pay for it. She goes To A/C and gambles...makes her happy...but wont pay for that surgery.
So who knows why...but I think the basis of this should be...could we make this type of thing work and if not..whats the NEXT option, cause our current way is not working for many KWIM?
eta- $75 becomes a LOT more when we already pay 34% of our weekly income to health insurance. If my insurance was employer paid. I wouldnt think twice I dont think over that amount of money.
Message edited 8/31/2008 11:52:10 PM.
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| Posted 8/31/08 11:50 PM |
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neenie
Member since 5/05 22351 total posts
Name:
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by dm24angel
The reason people will spend $75 on other things is because it leads to immediate happiness....example.....My own situation above. I actually went out to dinner that same night. I said, dinner or co pay. I felt "ok" and wanted to spend time with friends badly, so I opted for instant gratification.
But While the $75 is just an example. My MIL has HORRID insurance. She has needed a certain surgery , not life threatening but could get worse over the years , for a LONG time...and she wont pay for it. She goes To A/C and gambles...makes her happy...but wont pay for that surgery.
So who knows why...but I think the basis of this should be...could we make this type of thing work and if not..whats the NEXT option, cause our current way is not working for many KWIM?
I hope this doesn't sound as an attack- i don't mean it that way- but in the examples you gave... that kind of proves what i was saying- WHAT is the government supposed to do in those situations that would make it better? The gov't is supposed to pay for something that people won't pay for themselves. People choose other things as a priority for their money, but want the gov't to do the opposite. Again, i agree that there needs to be changes, but the responsibility does not rely solely on the govt.
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| Posted 8/31/08 11:56 PM |
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dm24angel
Happiness
Member since 5/05 34581 total posts
Name:
Donna
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by neenie
Posted by dm24angel
The reason people will spend $75 on other things is because it leads to immediate happiness....example.....My own situation above. I actually went out to dinner that same night. I said, dinner or co pay. I felt "ok" and wanted to spend time with friends badly, so I opted for instant gratification.
But While the $75 is just an example. My MIL has HORRID insurance. She has needed a certain surgery , not life threatening but could get worse over the years , for a LONG time...and she wont pay for it. She goes To A/C and gambles...makes her happy...but wont pay for that surgery.
So who knows why...but I think the basis of this should be...could we make this type of thing work and if not..whats the NEXT option, cause our current way is not working for many KWIM?
I hope this doesn't sound as an attack- i don't mean it that way- but in the examples you gave... that kind of proves what i was saying- WHAT is the government supposed to do in those situations that would make it better? The gov't is supposed to pay for something that people won't pay for themselves. People choose other things as a priority for their money, but want the gov't to do the opposite. Again, i agree that there needs to be changes, but the responsibility does not rely solely on the govt.
No no no...missing my point, My point is how MUCH that this all costs.
People wont pay it because its soo much of their weekly income. Its about livelihood.
Imagine being poor, all the time...and having a choice between the two...Many are gonna pick the intant grat...NOT the right choice, but I can see how it happens and why.
What this type of thinking leads to though is making it worse. Like MIL who will someday end up being worse and need much more $$$$ care had she just done it. But people cannot SEE that far ahead.
Message edited 9/1/2008 12:03:33 AM.
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| Posted 9/1/08 12:01 AM |
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dm24angel
Happiness
Member since 5/05 34581 total posts
Name:
Donna
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by neenie
Again, i agree that there needs to be changes, but the responsibility does not rely solely on the govt.
Actually I think that rather then pay for it..the govrnt. needs to stand up to the drug manufacturers instead of putting their hands out for $$$, and fight the insurance companies for reform and encourage and pressure companies to help pay more of a cost of the premiums. THATS a plan I feel is possible.
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| Posted 9/1/08 12:05 AM |
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KLSbear
LIF Adult
Member since 1/06 1908 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by neenie
Posted by dm24angel
The reason people will spend $75 on other things is because it leads to immediate happiness....example.....My own situation above. I actually went out to dinner that same night. I said, dinner or co pay. I felt "ok" and wanted to spend time with friends badly, so I opted for instant gratification.
But While the $75 is just an example. My MIL has HORRID insurance. She has needed a certain surgery , not life threatening but could get worse over the years , for a LONG time...and she wont pay for it. She goes To A/C and gambles...makes her happy...but wont pay for that surgery.
So who knows why...but I think the basis of this should be...could we make this type of thing work and if not..whats the NEXT option, cause our current way is not working for many KWIM?
I hope this doesn't sound as an attack- i don't mean it that way- but in the examples you gave... that kind of proves what i was saying- WHAT is the government supposed to do in those situations that would make it better? The gov't is supposed to pay for something that people won't pay for themselves. People choose other things as a priority for their money, but want the gov't to do the opposite. Again, i agree that there needs to be changes, but the responsibility does not rely solely on the govt.
ITA - you need to choose your priorities. If you put instant gratification, dining out, expensive toys, gambling in AC, etc. in front of your heath care then don't ask me to pay for your doctor via extra taxes.
In all this conversation I haven't seen one mention about taking responsibility for one's own health to reduce the overall burden on the system either. How many people here are taking Lipitor or similar drugs for cholestorol when they could eliminate the need altogether by exercising, eating better and losing weight - but it's easier to take a pill. Granted, some people will need it no matter what they do, but many health care expenses could be eliminated if we would just stop overeating, exercise more, and in general just take better care of our own health instead of looking for the magic pills.
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| Posted 9/1/08 12:07 AM |
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