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MsSissy
xoxoxo
Member since 3/07 39159 total posts
Name:
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Re: Crime is on the rise...
Posted by SecretlyTTC14
Posted by JennP
Posted by SecretlyTTC14
Posted by JennP
Do people really think the NYC police have been defunded overnight?
That process would take YEARS.
Does anyone have any actual evidence that police were "told to stand down"?
The departments would never put that in writing. The union bosses are vocal about it though and I think everyone that knows any NYPD officer, knows that they've been told to stop enforcing. Any PO that is eligible for retirement, is starting the process and they are all trying to get out. They won't say a word publicly because they won't risk their pension.
The thing about crime stats is that if laws are not enforced and arrests aren't made, it appears that crime has stopped.
Thanks for sharing. I figured as much but since I don't have any active NYPD in my inner circle I did not want to speculate.
Frankly, if that's the case, all that does is reinforce the need for reform because it looks like they want to stop doing their job if they're going to be held accountable. It's not a good look.
No one (that I heard) is saying that cops should not defend themselves if they're being attacked. Of course they should. But people who justify this based on some "damned if they do damned if they don't" logic are forgetting how this whole thing started because it sure as hell didn't start with cops being attacked and defending themselves.
Being told to stand down regardless of the circumstances is why they are getting out, not because they can't do the job without being held accountable. They feel like walking targets out there. An officer I know personally had a beer bottle full of piss chucked at his head a few nights ago. He was not allowed to apprehend the guy who threw it at him. The piece of crap video'd it and everything, probably put it on his youtube channel. Still they are not allowed to do anything, it's a joke. There are videos all over social media of people throwing glass bottles at NYPD cars, spitting in their faces and the officers just back up and walk away. That's not how things should be. I guess whatever, sucks for them, they signed up for it etc, but what do you think is happening to victims of rape or assault right now? Chances are they will never get justice. It's a scary world when there is no one to keep the order.
Why wasn't he allowed to apprehend they guy?
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Posted 7/6/20 10:50 PM  |
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TooSoontoTell
LIF Adolescent
Member since 11/11 501 total posts
Name:
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Re: Crime is on the rise...
Extremely and to deny the risk of this to our safety is just ignorance.
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| Posted 7/7/20 12:13 AM |
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TooSoontoTell
LIF Adolescent
Member since 11/11 501 total posts
Name:
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Re: Crime is on the rise...
Posted by Christine2
Actually, given that the "trend" has increased after BLM protests is my concern. I am not sure that defunding and sending social workers to shootings will work. Clearly, the police are tacitly "standing down" and it is showing in the increased violence throughout the country.
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| Posted 7/7/20 12:16 PM |
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queensgal
Smile
Member since 4/09 3287 total posts
Name:
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Re: Crime is on the rise...
Posted by TooSoontoTell
Posted by Christine2
Actually, given that the "trend" has increased after BLM protests is my concern. I am not sure that defunding and sending social workers to shootings will work. Clearly, the police are tacitly "standing down" and it is showing in the increased violence throughout the country.
That’s not at all what defund the police means. The conversation on sending social workers would be for non violent situations, mental health crises, etc.
If police are choosing to stand down and not perform their job, even more reason to defund them and put the money towards programs and people who will perform their jobs and protect society.
The “defund police” movement is not anti-police. It’s a recognition that we send police officers to every situation and they are not trained or best suited to handle so much. Instead, we need trained professionals who can assist non violent situations and prevent them from escalating to the point where someone who needed help ends up dead.
Your post is uneducated and perpetuates misinformation. Do some research.
I support our police. But I don’t support murderers and racists in uniform. I think the current system fails our police and is designed to fail. Cops who do wrong need to be punished and removed, they aren’t above the law. And all the other cops need more support from legislators and other organizations so they don’t have impossible expectations put on them.
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| Posted 7/7/20 8:32 AM |
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SecretlyTTC14
LIF Adult
Member since 12/13 1770 total posts
Name:
B
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Re: Crime is on the rise...
Posted by JennP
Posted by SecretlyTTC14
Posted by JennP
Posted by SecretlyTTC14
Posted by JennP
Do people really think the NYC police have been defunded overnight?
That process would take YEARS.
Does anyone have any actual evidence that police were "told to stand down"?
The departments would never put that in writing. The union bosses are vocal about it though and I think everyone that knows any NYPD officer, knows that they've been told to stop enforcing. Any PO that is eligible for retirement, is starting the process and they are all trying to get out. They won't say a word publicly because they won't risk their pension.
The thing about crime stats is that if laws are not enforced and arrests aren't made, it appears that crime has stopped.
Thanks for sharing. I figured as much but since I don't have any active NYPD in my inner circle I did not want to speculate.
Frankly, if that's the case, all that does is reinforce the need for reform because it looks like they want to stop doing their job if they're going to be held accountable. It's not a good look.
No one (that I heard) is saying that cops should not defend themselves if they're being attacked. Of course they should. But people who justify this based on some "damned if they do damned if they don't" logic are forgetting how this whole thing started because it sure as hell didn't start with cops being attacked and defending themselves.
Being told to stand down regardless of the circumstances is why they are getting out, not because they can't do the job without being held accountable. They feel like walking targets out there. An officer I know personally had a beer bottle full of piss chucked at his head a few nights ago. He was not allowed to apprehend the guy who threw it at him. The piece of crap video'd it and everything, probably put it on his youtube channel. Still they are not allowed to do anything, it's a joke. There are videos all over social media of people throwing glass bottles at NYPD cars, spitting in their faces and the officers just back up and walk away. That's not how things should be. I guess whatever, sucks for them, they signed up for it etc, but what do you think is happening to victims of rape or assault right now? Chances are they will never get justice. It's a scary world when there is no one to keep the order.
I don't understand what these awful conditions - and you're right, it shouldn't be this way - have to do with rape and assault victims.
If they get a call to an certain location, they go to the location. No?
I'm not asking in a hostile way. Trying to understand your logic.
And someone (sorry forgot who) had an anecdote about an officer who didn't want to speak out about something because his pension would be at risk. This, again, only strengthens the allegations of those who call for reform. It's the blue wall and highlights the need for transparency and accountability. There's a systemic issue here and not enough people within it have any interest in addressing it.
Sure, they go and take the report. That's about it though. Unless you know who attacked you, there isn't going to be any sort of investigation. It's basically a free for all right now.
You're right, they shouldn't get in trouble for speaking out. I think that is a big problem, officers can't say anything publicly (I don't mean just talking to the news or anything), but even out loud to family and friends without feeling like they are risking their jobs. When I speak with friends on the job and I ask, their replies are always prefaced with "don't repeat this". They can't confirm or deny anything without it possibly coming back to them. Anything said out loud has to come from the higher ups, that's the rule. I think every cop wishes it wasn't that way, but when it's their job and pension on the line, no one is going to speak out against it. Even if it was something they couldn't be fired for, they would face backlash from their higher ups. That means no promotions, requests for transfer would be denied, vacation day approvals would be denied (especially if they know you have something important going on those days). It would make life hell for them.
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| Posted 7/7/20 10:22 AM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Crime is on the rise...
Posted by queensgal
Posted by TooSoontoTell
Posted by Christine2
Actually, given that the "trend" has increased after BLM protests is my concern. I am not sure that defunding and sending social workers to shootings will work. Clearly, the police are tacitly "standing down" and it is showing in the increased violence throughout the country.
That’s not at all what defund the police means. The conversation on sending social workers would be for non violent situations, mental health crises, etc.
If police are choosing to stand down and not perform their job, even more reason to defund them and put the money towards programs and people who will perform their jobs and protect society.
The “defund police” movement is not anti-police. It’s a recognition that we send police officers to every situation and they are not trained or best suited to handle so much. Instead, we need trained professionals who can assist non violent situations and prevent them from escalating to the point where someone who needed help ends up dead.
Your post is uneducated and perpetuates misinformation. Do some research.
I support our police. But I don’t support murderers and racists in uniform. I think the current system fails our police and is designed to fail. Cops who do wrong need to be punished and removed, they aren’t above the law. And all the other cops need more support from legislators and other organizations so they don’t have impossible expectations put on them.
This, 100000%.
So many things said in this thread just reinforce the need for reform.
The system is corrupt AF.
Meanwhile, the OP repeatedly bashed teachers on various other threads, painting them all with the same brush, then starts a thread that ignores obvious problems and corruptions in this system. The hypocrisy is blatant and nauseating.
And as awful as having bottles of piss thrown at you are, it pales in comparison to having your head and neck crushed for 9 minutes.
You're a public servant? Do your fukking job.
This thread makes me sick.
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| Posted 7/7/20 11:31 AM |
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SecretlyTTC14
LIF Adult
Member since 12/13 1770 total posts
Name:
B
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Re: Crime is on the rise...
Posted by JennP
Posted by queensgal
Posted by TooSoontoTell
Posted by Christine2
Actually, given that the "trend" has increased after BLM protests is my concern. I am not sure that defunding and sending social workers to shootings will work. Clearly, the police are tacitly "standing down" and it is showing in the increased violence throughout the country.
That’s not at all what defund the police means. The conversation on sending social workers would be for non violent situations, mental health crises, etc.
If police are choosing to stand down and not perform their job, even more reason to defund them and put the money towards programs and people who will perform their jobs and protect society.
The “defund police” movement is not anti-police. It’s a recognition that we send police officers to every situation and they are not trained or best suited to handle so much. Instead, we need trained professionals who can assist non violent situations and prevent them from escalating to the point where someone who needed help ends up dead.
Your post is uneducated and perpetuates misinformation. Do some research.
I support our police. But I don’t support murderers and racists in uniform. I think the current system fails our police and is designed to fail. Cops who do wrong need to be punished and removed, they aren’t above the law. And all the other cops need more support from legislators and other organizations so they don’t have impossible expectations put on them.
This, 100000%.
So many things said in this thread just reinforce the need for reform.
The system is corrupt AF.
Meanwhile, the OP repeatedly bashed teachers on various other threads, painting them all with the same brush, then starts a thread that ignores obvious problems and corruptions in this system. The hypocrisy is blatant and nauseating.
And as awful as having bottles of piss thrown at you are, it pales in comparison to having your head and neck crushed for 9 minutes.
You're a public servant? Do your fukking job.
This thread makes me sick.
You act as though the cop I spoke about is the one that killed someone. You really think it's ok for that to happen? To have to get stitches in your head, not to mention being covered in some strangers piss? Just for trying to do your job. They aren't all bad cops. They just want to do their jobs and go home at the end of the day like anyone else.
I agree, everyone needs to just do their jobs. The job for them is following orders though. So technically, they are doing their jobs. Standing on the street, with targets on their backs, unable to do anything about it. The thread was started about crime being on the rise. Which it is and I responded only to add what I know. There are obvious things that need to change, but with cops, I think it needs to start with laws, not individuals. It's not fair to expect someone to go against orders and risk their livelihood and future.
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| Posted 7/7/20 12:06 PM |
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HeyJude
LIF Adolescent
Member since 9/07 820 total posts
Name:
p
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Re: Crime is on the rise...
Posted by Christine2
is anyone else worried about the longterm ramifications of this anti-police culture we are living in? I hope this doesn't continue much longer. I'm not sure what can change to reverse this trend.
I live in a rural area, so I am not worried for our personal safety. But, I have seen horrible videos of what is going on in NYC and other large cities and it makes me so sad and sick. A woman in midtown getting knocked out and robbed in the middle of the day, a mother attacked with her child right next to her in Brooklyn, cops being attacked while people video, city hall, woman attacked in the Bronx waiting on a subway, a child murdered by a mob in Atlanta. You can look at the NYPD stats and compare to last year, shootings up over 150%? It is scary. I have no idea what will help.
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| Posted 7/7/20 12:39 PM |
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tkmommie
LIF Infant
Member since 5/06 170 total posts
Name:
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Re: Crime is on the rise...
Message edited 7/7/2020 12:49:05 PM.
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| Posted 7/7/20 12:48 PM |
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soontobemommyof2
My boys...my everything <3
Member since 4/15 3635 total posts
Name:
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Re: Crime is on the rise...
Posted by JennP
Posted by queensgal
Posted by TooSoontoTell
Posted by Christine2
Actually, given that the "trend" has increased after BLM protests is my concern. I am not sure that defunding and sending social workers to shootings will work. Clearly, the police are tacitly "standing down" and it is showing in the increased violence throughout the country.
That’s not at all what defund the police means. The conversation on sending social workers would be for non violent situations, mental health crises, etc.
If police are choosing to stand down and not perform their job, even more reason to defund them and put the money towards programs and people who will perform their jobs and protect society.
The “defund police” movement is not anti-police. It’s a recognition that we send police officers to every situation and they are not trained or best suited to handle so much. Instead, we need trained professionals who can assist non violent situations and prevent them from escalating to the point where someone who needed help ends up dead.
Your post is uneducated and perpetuates misinformation. Do some research.
I support our police. But I don’t support murderers and racists in uniform. I think the current system fails our police and is designed to fail. Cops who do wrong need to be punished and removed, they aren’t above the law. And all the other cops need more support from legislators and other organizations so they don’t have impossible expectations put on them.
This, 100000%.
So many things said in this thread just reinforce the need for reform.
The system is corrupt AF.
Meanwhile, the OP repeatedly bashed teachers on various other threads, painting them all with the same brush, then starts a thread that ignores obvious problems and corruptions in this system. The hypocrisy is blatant and nauseating.
And as awful as having bottles of piss thrown at you are, it pales in comparison to having your head and neck crushed for 9 minutes.
You're a public servant? Do your fukking job.
This thread makes me sick.
It’s so easy to just say “do ur fukking job” when we don’t have that job, nor do we truly and fully comprehend what that job requires in the present hostile time. Would u be ok with ur kids signing up to be a cop now?
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| Posted 7/7/20 12:49 PM |
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KateBennetReel
LIF Adolescent
Member since 10/15 555 total posts
Name:
Keep
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Re: Crime is on the rise...
Posted by JennP
Posted by queensgal
Posted by TooSoontoTell
Posted by Christine2
Actually, given that the "trend" has increased after BLM protests is my concern. I am not sure that defunding and sending social workers to shootings will work. Clearly, the police are tacitly "standing down" and it is showing in the increased violence throughout the country.
That’s not at all what defund the police means. The conversation on sending social workers would be for non violent situations, mental health crises, etc.
If police are choosing to stand down and not perform their job, even more reason to defund them and put the money towards programs and people who will perform their jobs and protect society.
The “defund police” movement is not anti-police. It’s a recognition that we send police officers to every situation and they are not trained or best suited to handle so much. Instead, we need trained professionals who can assist non violent situations and prevent them from escalating to the point where someone who needed help ends up dead.
Your post is uneducated and perpetuates misinformation. Do some research.
I support our police. But I don’t support murderers and racists in uniform. I think the current system fails our police and is designed to fail. Cops who do wrong need to be punished and removed, they aren’t above the law. And all the other cops need more support from legislators and other organizations so they don’t have impossible expectations put on them.
This, 100000%.
So many things said in this thread just reinforce the need for reform.
The system is corrupt AF.
Meanwhile, the OP repeatedly bashed teachers on various other threads, painting them all with the same brush, then starts a thread that ignores obvious problems and corruptions in this system. The hypocrisy is blatant and nauseating.
And as awful as having bottles of piss thrown at you are, it pales in comparison to having your head and neck crushed for 9 minutes.
You're a public servant? Do your fukking job.
This thread makes me sick.
It was making me sick too.
And then I came back to see if there was any improvement, and there is.
Reading your response was the improvement.
The hypocrisy is blatant and nauseating.
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| Posted 7/7/20 1:47 PM |
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LizD
LIF Adolescent
Member since 4/06 763 total posts
Name:
Liz
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Re: Crime is on the rise...
Posted by JennP
Do people really think the NYC police have been defunded overnight?
That process would take YEARS.
Does anyone have any actual evidence that police were "told to stand down"?
it's not overnight but it actually doesn't take YEARS. They have a budget so lets say NYC has been cut for the next fiscal year 1 billion +
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| Posted 7/7/20 3:02 PM |
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LizD
LIF Adolescent
Member since 4/06 763 total posts
Name:
Liz
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Re: Crime is on the rise...
Posted by JennP
Posted by SecretlyTTC14
Posted by JennP
Do people really think the NYC police have been defunded overnight?
That process would take YEARS.
Does anyone have any actual evidence that police were "told to stand down"?
The departments would never put that in writing. The union bosses are vocal about it though and I think everyone that knows any NYPD officer, knows that they've been told to stop enforcing. Any PO that is eligible for retirement, is starting the process and they are all trying to get out. They won't say a word publicly because they won't risk their pension.
The thing about crime stats is that if laws are not enforced and arrests aren't made, it appears that crime has stopped.
Thanks for sharing. I figured as much but since I don't have any active NYPD in my inner circle I did not want to speculate.
Frankly, if that's the case, all that does is reinforce the need for reform because it looks like they want to stop doing their job if they're going to be held accountable. It's not a good look.
No one (that I heard) is saying that cops should not defend themselves if they're being attacked. Of course they should. But people who justify this based on some "damned if they do damned if they don't" logic are forgetting how this whole thing started because it sure as hell didn't start with cops being attacked and defending themselves.
since you don't have any cops in your inner circle that is why you are not hearing about it. They are being told to stand down - don't engage. They are not talking about NOT being able to do their jobs, they are not saying they don't want to do their jobs. Their hands are being tied by the politicians.
Seriously cops don't go out each day looking to kill anybody. I am sure there are bad cops, just like there are bad everybody (criminals included). Cops get killed on the job all the time, intentionally!! A few years back two cops sitting in the squad car taking meal - both shot and killed on the car. Not on a call, not pulling someone over, not at a domestic, sitting in the f'en car eating. You probably never heard it because if things like that make the news it is a two second blurb. No protesting, no riots, no looting, none of that. That's just one example. I can give many more if you need them
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| Posted 7/7/20 3:10 PM |
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LizD
LIF Adolescent
Member since 4/06 763 total posts
Name:
Liz
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Re: Crime is on the rise...
Posted by JennP
Posted by SecretlyTTC14
Posted by JennP
Posted by SecretlyTTC14
Posted by JennP
Do people really think the NYC police have been defunded overnight?
That process would take YEARS.
Does anyone have any actual evidence that police were "told to stand down"?
The departments would never put that in writing. The union bosses are vocal about it though and I think everyone that knows any NYPD officer, knows that they've been told to stop enforcing. Any PO that is eligible for retirement, is starting the process and they are all trying to get out. They won't say a word publicly because they won't risk their pension.
The thing about crime stats is that if laws are not enforced and arrests aren't made, it appears that crime has stopped.
Thanks for sharing. I figured as much but since I don't have any active NYPD in my inner circle I did not want to speculate.
Frankly, if that's the case, all that does is reinforce the need for reform because it looks like they want to stop doing their job if they're going to be held accountable. It's not a good look.
No one (that I heard) is saying that cops should not defend themselves if they're being attacked. Of course they should. But people who justify this based on some "damned if they do damned if they don't" logic are forgetting how this whole thing started because it sure as hell didn't start with cops being attacked and defending themselves.
Being told to stand down regardless of the circumstances is why they are getting out, not because they can't do the job without being held accountable. They feel like walking targets out there. An officer I know personally had a beer bottle full of piss chucked at his head a few nights ago. He was not allowed to apprehend the guy who threw it at him. The piece of crap video'd it and everything, probably put it on his youtube channel. Still they are not allowed to do anything, it's a joke. There are videos all over social media of people throwing glass bottles at NYPD cars, spitting in their faces and the officers just back up and walk away. That's not how things should be. I guess whatever, sucks for them, they signed up for it etc, but what do you think is happening to victims of rape or assault right now? Chances are they will never get justice. It's a scary world when there is no one to keep the order.
I don't understand what these awful conditions - and you're right, it shouldn't be this way - have to do with rape and assault victims.
If they get a call to an certain location, they go to the location. No?
I'm not asking in a hostile way. Trying to understand your logic.
And someone (sorry forgot who) had an anecdote about an officer who didn't want to speak out about something because his pension would be at risk. This, again, only strengthens the allegations of those who call for reform. It's the blue wall and highlights the need for transparency and accountability. There's a systemic issue here and not enough people within it have any interest in addressing it.
it's not losing the pension for speaking out against another cop who is doing wrong. It is speaking out about being told to stand down by the higher ups, the politicians. There needs to be more transparency, yes, but people have to see all sides, not just the BLM side on this. The entire picture needs to be seen, not just the side that fits the agenda of the time
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| Posted 7/7/20 3:14 PM |
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LizD
LIF Adolescent
Member since 4/06 763 total posts
Name:
Liz
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Re: Crime is on the rise...
Posted by JennP
Posted by queensgal
Posted by TooSoontoTell
Posted by Christine2
Actually, given that the "trend" has increased after BLM protests is my concern. I am not sure that defunding and sending social workers to shootings will work. Clearly, the police are tacitly "standing down" and it is showing in the increased violence throughout the country.
That’s not at all what defund the police means. The conversation on sending social workers would be for non violent situations, mental health crises, etc.
If police are choosing to stand down and not perform their job, even more reason to defund them and put the money towards programs and people who will perform their jobs and protect society.
The “defund police” movement is not anti-police. It’s a recognition that we send police officers to every situation and they are not trained or best suited to handle so much. Instead, we need trained professionals who can assist non violent situations and prevent them from escalating to the point where someone who needed help ends up dead.
Your post is uneducated and perpetuates misinformation. Do some research.
I support our police. But I don’t support murderers and racists in uniform. I think the current system fails our police and is designed to fail. Cops who do wrong need to be punished and removed, they aren’t above the law. And all the other cops need more support from legislators and other organizations so they don’t have impossible expectations put on them.
This, 100000%.
So many things said in this thread just reinforce the need for reform.
The system is corrupt AF.
Meanwhile, the OP repeatedly bashed teachers on various other threads, painting them all with the same brush, then starts a thread that ignores obvious problems and corruptions in this system. The hypocrisy is blatant and nauseating.
And as awful as having bottles of piss thrown at you are, it pales in comparison to having your head and neck crushed for 9 minutes.
You're a public servant? Do your fukking job.
This thread makes me sick.
they are public servants and they do their job. What makes you think they aren't. They put on that uniform and go to work and get piss and shit thrown on them. They get bricks thrown at them, attacked physically and verbally on a regular basis. Molotav cocktails thrown at the cars they are in. Called to fake gunshots to be ambushed. They get shot at and killed. What happened to George Floyd was disgusting and ALL cops agree with that. They do not back what that cop did at all, as I assume you would not agree with cops being shot sitting in their car eating a meal, would you? I am seeing no outrage on any cops getting killed at all. More cops got killed in the last few weeks than criminals
and what does this thread have to do with the original op and previous threads about teachers? I don't understand
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| Posted 7/7/20 3:21 PM |
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LizD
LIF Adolescent
Member since 4/06 763 total posts
Name:
Liz
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Re: Crime is on the rise...
Posted by queensgal
Posted by TooSoontoTell
Posted by Christine2
Actually, given that the "trend" has increased after BLM protests is my concern. I am not sure that defunding and sending social workers to shootings will work. Clearly, the police are tacitly "standing down" and it is showing in the increased violence throughout the country.
That’s not at all what defund the police means. The conversation on sending social workers would be for non violent situations, mental health crises, etc.
If police are choosing to stand down and not perform their job, even more reason to defund them and put the money towards programs and people who will perform their jobs and protect society.
The “defund police” movement is not anti-police. It’s a recognition that we send police officers to every situation and they are not trained or best suited to handle so much. Instead, we need trained professionals who can assist non violent situations and prevent them from escalating to the point where someone who needed help ends up dead.
Your post is uneducated and perpetuates misinformation. Do some research.
I support our police. But I don’t support murderers and racists in uniform. I think the current system fails our police and is designed to fail. Cops who do wrong need to be punished and removed, they aren’t above the law. And all the other cops need more support from legislators and other organizations so they don’t have impossible expectations put on them.
they are not choosing not to do their jobs. I'm sorry - someone said earlier to do research on BLM well y'all need to do research on cops as well.
I know you claim to support the police, but you don't that is clear and that is your right, but don't spew shit when you don't know what you are taking about. Racists in uniform is so ignorant it is not even worth a response, but that comment right there shows how you really feel.
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| Posted 7/7/20 3:27 PM |
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beachbabe
LIF Adolescent
Member since 9/15 731 total posts
Name:
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Re: Crime is on the rise...
Posted by LizD
Posted by JennP
Posted by SecretlyTTC14
Posted by JennP
Do people really think the NYC police have been defunded overnight?
That process would take YEARS.
Does anyone have any actual evidence that police were "told to stand down"?
The departments would never put that in writing. The union bosses are vocal about it though and I think everyone that knows any NYPD officer, knows that they've been told to stop enforcing. Any PO that is eligible for retirement, is starting the process and they are all trying to get out. They won't say a word publicly because they won't risk their pension.
The thing about crime stats is that if laws are not enforced and arrests aren't made, it appears that crime has stopped.
Thanks for sharing. I figured as much but since I don't have any active NYPD in my inner circle I did not want to speculate.
Frankly, if that's the case, all that does is reinforce the need for reform because it looks like they want to stop doing their job if they're going to be held accountable. It's not a good look.
No one (that I heard) is saying that cops should not defend themselves if they're being attacked. Of course they should. But people who justify this based on some "damned if they do damned if they don't" logic are forgetting how this whole thing started because it sure as hell didn't start with cops being attacked and defending themselves.
since you don't have any cops in your inner circle that is why you are not hearing about it. They are being told to stand down - don't engage. They are not talking about NOT being able to do their jobs, they are not saying they don't want to do their jobs. Their hands are being tied by the politicians.
Seriously cops don't go out each day looking to kill anybody. I am sure there are bad cops, just like there are bad everybody (criminals included). Cops get killed on the job all the time, intentionally!! A few years back two cops sitting in the squad car taking meal - both shot and killed on the car. Not on a call, not pulling someone over, not at a domestic, sitting in the f'en car eating. You probably never heard it because if things like that make the news it is a two second blurb. No protesting, no riots, no looting, none of that. That's just one example. I can give many more if you need them
I remember those two cops! They were parked on the side of the road eating in the car and someone shot them point blank from behind. They never even saw it coming. One was Asian and the other Hispanic correct?
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| Posted 7/7/20 3:52 PM |
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chilltocam
LIF Adult
Member since 11/11 9141 total posts
Name:
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Re: Crime is on the rise...
Posted by LizD
Posted by JennP
Posted by SecretlyTTC14
Posted by JennP
Do people really think the NYC police have been defunded overnight?
That process would take YEARS.
Does anyone have any actual evidence that police were "told to stand down"?
The departments would never put that in writing. The union bosses are vocal about it though and I think everyone that knows any NYPD officer, knows that they've been told to stop enforcing. Any PO that is eligible for retirement, is starting the process and they are all trying to get out. They won't say a word publicly because they won't risk their pension.
The thing about crime stats is that if laws are not enforced and arrests aren't made, it appears that crime has stopped.
Thanks for sharing. I figured as much but since I don't have any active NYPD in my inner circle I did not want to speculate.
Frankly, if that's the case, all that does is reinforce the need for reform because it looks like they want to stop doing their job if they're going to be held accountable. It's not a good look.
No one (that I heard) is saying that cops should not defend themselves if they're being attacked. Of course they should. But people who justify this based on some "damned if they do damned if they don't" logic are forgetting how this whole thing started because it sure as hell didn't start with cops being attacked and defending themselves.
since you don't have any cops in your inner circle that is why you are not hearing about it. They are being told to stand down - don't engage. They are not talking about NOT being able to do their jobs, they are not saying they don't want to do their jobs. Their hands are being tied by the politicians.
Seriously cops don't go out each day looking to kill anybody. I am sure there are bad cops, just like there are bad everybody (criminals included). Cops get killed on the job all the time, intentionally!! A few years back two cops sitting in the squad car taking meal - both shot and killed on the car. Not on a call, not pulling someone over, not at a domestic, sitting in the f'en car eating. You probably never heard it because if things like that make the news it is a two second blurb. No protesting, no riots, no looting, none of that. That's just one example. I can give many more if you need them
That incident when the two cops were shot was horrific. And it certainly made the news - WAY more than a 2 second blurb! It was (as it should have been) all over the news for days.
The thing is, none of this should be "all or nothing" - it's not all cops are bad. It's not all protesters are bad. It's not take away all the money from the police departments. But spending some of that money so that there can be a different kind of response when there is a call that involves someone with mental illness is important - for ALL involved (NO cop wants to be the one that shoots someone with mental illness if it could have been avoided). Cops should be able to do their jobs. They should be able to report corruption or other systemic issues without fear of losing their pensions. But, they should also be ALLOWED to to their jobs and those who harm cops for no reason - whether it rises to the level of shooting one or throwing a bottle or brick - those people should face serious consequences also
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| Posted 7/7/20 4:07 PM |
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mrsrainbow
LIF Adult
Member since 1/17 1465 total posts
Name:
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Re: Crime is on the rise...
Posted by chilltocam
Posted by LizD
Posted by JennP
Posted by SecretlyTTC14
Posted by JennP
Do people really think the NYC police have been defunded overnight?
That process would take YEARS.
Does anyone have any actual evidence that police were "told to stand down"?
The departments would never put that in writing. The union bosses are vocal about it though and I think everyone that knows any NYPD officer, knows that they've been told to stop enforcing. Any PO that is eligible for retirement, is starting the process and they are all trying to get out. They won't say a word publicly because they won't risk their pension.
The thing about crime stats is that if laws are not enforced and arrests aren't made, it appears that crime has stopped.
Thanks for sharing. I figured as much but since I don't have any active NYPD in my inner circle I did not want to speculate.
Frankly, if that's the case, all that does is reinforce the need for reform because it looks like they want to stop doing their job if they're going to be held accountable. It's not a good look.
No one (that I heard) is saying that cops should not defend themselves if they're being attacked. Of course they should. But people who justify this based on some "damned if they do damned if they don't" logic are forgetting how this whole thing started because it sure as hell didn't start with cops being attacked and defending themselves.
since you don't have any cops in your inner circle that is why you are not hearing about it. They are being told to stand down - don't engage. They are not talking about NOT being able to do their jobs, they are not saying they don't want to do their jobs. Their hands are being tied by the politicians.
Seriously cops don't go out each day looking to kill anybody. I am sure there are bad cops, just like there are bad everybody (criminals included). Cops get killed on the job all the time, intentionally!! A few years back two cops sitting in the squad car taking meal - both shot and killed on the car. Not on a call, not pulling someone over, not at a domestic, sitting in the f'en car eating. You probably never heard it because if things like that make the news it is a two second blurb. No protesting, no riots, no looting, none of that. That's just one example. I can give many more if you need them
That incident when the two cops were shot was horrific. And it certainly made the news - WAY more than a 2 second blurb! It was (as it should have been) all over the news for days.
The thing is, none of this should be "all or nothing" - it's not all cops are bad. It's not all protesters are bad. It's not take away all the money from the police departments. But spending some of that money so that there can be a different kind of response when there is a call that involves someone with mental illness is important - for ALL involved (NO cop wants to be the one that shoots someone with mental illness if it could have been avoided). Cops should be able to do their jobs. They should be able to report corruption or other systemic issues without fear of losing their pensions. But, they should also be ALLOWED to to their jobs and those who harm cops for no reason - whether it rises to the level of shooting one or throwing a bottle or brick - those people should face serious consequences also
Why do cop families act like NO ONE cares about them?
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| Posted 7/7/20 4:41 PM |
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queensgal
Smile
Member since 4/09 3287 total posts
Name:
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Re: Crime is on the rise...
Posted by LizD
Posted by queensgal
Posted by TooSoontoTell
Posted by Christine2
Actually, given that the "trend" has increased after BLM protests is my concern. I am not sure that defunding and sending social workers to shootings will work. Clearly, the police are tacitly "standing down" and it is showing in the increased violence throughout the country.
That’s not at all what defund the police means. The conversation on sending social workers would be for non violent situations, mental health crises, etc.
If police are choosing to stand down and not perform their job, even more reason to defund them and put the money towards programs and people who will perform their jobs and protect society.
The “defund police” movement is not anti-police. It’s a recognition that we send police officers to every situation and they are not trained or best suited to handle so much. Instead, we need trained professionals who can assist non violent situations and prevent them from escalating to the point where someone who needed help ends up dead.
Your post is uneducated and perpetuates misinformation. Do some research.
I support our police. But I don’t support murderers and racists in uniform. I think the current system fails our police and is designed to fail. Cops who do wrong need to be punished and removed, they aren’t above the law. And all the other cops need more support from legislators and other organizations so they don’t have impossible expectations put on them.
they are not choosing not to do their jobs. I'm sorry - someone said earlier to do research on BLM well y'all need to do research on cops as well.
I know you claim to support the police, but you don't that is clear and that is your right, but don't spew shit when you don't know what you are taking about. Racists in uniform is so ignorant it is not even worth a response, but that comment right there shows how you really feel.
Huh? I didn’t say all cops are racist. I’m trying to differentiate between the racists in uniform - example the cop who killed George Floyd because he was black- and the police who are trying to do good police work day in and day out. What is ignorant about that? Or do you believe that zero cops are racist and act based on those beliefs?
For what it’s worth, there are racists in all professions and every walk of life.
If you relax on your anger you will see we are on the same side. Politicians and the system are failing all of us. That is what needs to change. And the money and where it goes is one thing but the entire thing is broken on who makes those decisions and how they are carried out. We need to stop fighting amongst ourselves, that’s what the people in power want so they stay in power.
The system had failed our police in many ways. The response had been greater protection for “bad cops” which honestly just puts everyone in more danger. Of course someone who assaults an officer should be held accountable - if police leadership and/or political leaders are causing that not to happen then it needs to change! See, we are on the same side.
We need strong community ties between people and the police/other support workers and first responders. Protecting racist cops who act illegally under the guise of a badge helps no one. The systems that perpetuate that- funding, court system, education, company practices etc - and keep minority groups (including women) down need to be changed. That is what is behind BLM.
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| Posted 7/7/20 4:42 PM |
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Christine2
LIF Adult
Member since 2/09 1216 total posts
Name:
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Re: Crime is on the rise...
Reasons why crime is on the rise?
(1) Bail reform act - releasing suspected criminals back into the streets without bail
(2) Early release of prisoners due to COVID
(3) COVID shut down the courts - more criminals on the streets
(4) Anti-police sentiment with politicians not supporting the police, instead supporting defunding them (with some like AOC saying that $1 billion in defunding isn't enough??)
(5) Anxiety/unrest/unemployment due to COVID
When you don't punish for the crime, don't be shocked when it increases. When a cause says they want to "defund" it implies that they do not respect the value of the service. Well, many of us do! While I would support social workers being called for non violent crimes, we are talking about FELONIES here - kids are dying, people being shot in the head holding their child's hand. It is devolving into chaos and madness. It's sad that posters aren't even willing to acknowledge the SUDDEN and DRASTIC increase in crime. I guess it just isn't PC. Just like how we need to social distance and close schools, but mass protests are ok.
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| Posted 7/7/20 10:34 PM |
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RainyDay
LIF Adult
Member since 6/15 3986 total posts
Name:
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Re: Crime is on the rise...
Posted by Christine2
Reasons why crime is on the rise?
(1) Bail reform act - releasing suspected criminals back into the streets without bail
(2) Early release of prisoners due to COVID
(3) COVID shut down the courts - more criminals on the streets
(4) Anti-police sentiment with politicians not supporting the police, instead supporting defunding them (with some like AOC saying that $1 billion in defunding isn't enough??)
(5) Anxiety/unrest/unemployment due to COVID
When you don't punish for the crime, don't be shocked when it increases. When a cause says they want to "defund" it implies that they do not respect the value of the service. Well, many of us do! While I would support social workers being called for non violent crimes, we are talking about FELONIES here - kids are dying, people being shot in the head holding their child's hand. It is devolving into chaos and madness. It's sad that posters aren't even willing to acknowledge the SUDDEN and DRASTIC increase in crime. I guess it just isn't PC. Just like how we need to social distance and close schools, but mass protests are ok.
"When you don't punish for the crime" isn't this a main reason why all these issues started to begin with? Cops not being held accountable for their actions? Oh I get it, it doesn't apply to cops
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| Posted 7/7/20 11:08 PM |
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LizD
LIF Adolescent
Member since 4/06 763 total posts
Name:
Liz
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Re: Crime is on the rise...
Posted by chilltocam
Posted by LizD
Posted by JennP
Posted by SecretlyTTC14
Posted by JennP
Do people really think the NYC police have been defunded overnight?
That process would take YEARS.
Does anyone have any actual evidence that police were "told to stand down"?
The departments would never put that in writing. The union bosses are vocal about it though and I think everyone that knows any NYPD officer, knows that they've been told to stop enforcing. Any PO that is eligible for retirement, is starting the process and they are all trying to get out. They won't say a word publicly because they won't risk their pension.
The thing about crime stats is that if laws are not enforced and arrests aren't made, it appears that crime has stopped.
Thanks for sharing. I figured as much but since I don't have any active NYPD in my inner circle I did not want to speculate.
Frankly, if that's the case, all that does is reinforce the need for reform because it looks like they want to stop doing their job if they're going to be held accountable. It's not a good look.
No one (that I heard) is saying that cops should not defend themselves if they're being attacked. Of course they should. But people who justify this based on some "damned if they do damned if they don't" logic are forgetting how this whole thing started because it sure as hell didn't start with cops being attacked and defending themselves.
since you don't have any cops in your inner circle that is why you are not hearing about it. They are being told to stand down - don't engage. They are not talking about NOT being able to do their jobs, they are not saying they don't want to do their jobs. Their hands are being tied by the politicians.
Seriously cops don't go out each day looking to kill anybody. I am sure there are bad cops, just like there are bad everybody (criminals included). Cops get killed on the job all the time, intentionally!! A few years back two cops sitting in the squad car taking meal - both shot and killed on the car. Not on a call, not pulling someone over, not at a domestic, sitting in the f'en car eating. You probably never heard it because if things like that make the news it is a two second blurb. No protesting, no riots, no looting, none of that. That's just one example. I can give many more if you need them
That incident when the two cops were shot was horrific. And it certainly made the news - WAY more than a 2 second blurb! It was (as it should have been) all over the news for days.
The thing is, none of this should be "all or nothing" - it's not all cops are bad. It's not all protesters are bad. It's not take away all the money from the police departments. But spending some of that money so that there can be a different kind of response when there is a call that involves someone with mental illness is important - for ALL involved (NO cop wants to be the one that shoots someone with mental illness if it could have been avoided). Cops should be able to do their jobs. They should be able to report corruption or other systemic issues without fear of losing their pensions. But, they should also be ALLOWED to to their jobs and those who harm cops for no reason - whether it rises to the level of shooting one or throwing a bottle or brick - those people should face serious consequences also
I agree there are calls they should not be involved in, but that had to mean they are NOT involved. You have to send people who can deal with these calls without including the police as "back up". If you are taking money away from them and using it for this type of service these people need to be able to handle themselves and not involve the police. If that is the case than the budget needs to increase to account for the extra personnel and the cops still being involved
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| Posted 7/8/20 6:55 AM |
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nycbuslady
LIF Adult
Member since 9/15 1063 total posts
Name:
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Re: Crime is on the rise...
I agree there are calls they should not be involved in, but that had to mean they are NOT involved. You have to send people who can deal with these calls without including the police as "back up". If you are taking money away from them and using it for this type of service these people need to be able to handle themselves and not involve the police. If that is the case than the budget needs to increase to account for the extra personnel and the cops still being involved
I agree. When someone calls 911, the person doesn't know right away if someone is mentally ill or has other problems that wouldn't involve the police. The police would still have to respond and then have the social worker take care of the issue afterwards. You can't just have the social worker go to the scene without a cop.
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| Posted 7/8/20 7:05 AM |
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LizD
LIF Adolescent
Member since 4/06 763 total posts
Name:
Liz
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Re: Crime is on the rise...
Posted by queensgal
Posted by LizD
Posted by queensgal
Posted by TooSoontoTell
Posted by Christine2
Actually, given that the "trend" has increased after BLM protests is my concern. I am not sure that defunding and sending social workers to shootings will work. Clearly, the police are tacitly "standing down" and it is showing in the increased violence throughout the country.
That’s not at all what defund the police means. The conversation on sending social workers would be for non violent situations, mental health crises, etc.
If police are choosing to stand down and not perform their job, even more reason to defund them and put the money towards programs and people who will perform their jobs and protect society.
The “defund police” movement is not anti-police. It’s a recognition that we send police officers to every situation and they are not trained or best suited to handle so much. Instead, we need trained professionals who can assist non violent situations and prevent them from escalating to the point where someone who needed help ends up dead.
Your post is uneducated and perpetuates misinformation. Do some research.
I support our police. But I don’t support murderers and racists in uniform. I think the current system fails our police and is designed to fail. Cops who do wrong need to be punished and removed, they aren’t above the law. And all the other cops need more support from legislators and other organizations so they don’t have impossible expectations put on them.
they are not choosing not to do their jobs. I'm sorry - someone said earlier to do research on BLM well y'all need to do research on cops as well.
I know you claim to support the police, but you don't that is clear and that is your right, but don't spew shit when you don't know what you are taking about. Racists in uniform is so ignorant it is not even worth a response, but that comment right there shows how you really feel.
Huh? I didn’t say all cops are racist. I’m trying to differentiate between the racists in uniform - example the cop who killed George Floyd because he was black- and the police who are trying to do good police work day in and day out. What is ignorant about that? Or do you believe that zero cops are racist and act based on those beliefs?
For what it’s worth, there are racists in all professions and every walk of life.
If you relax on your anger you will see we are on the same side. Politicians and the system are failing all of us. That is what needs to change. And the money and where it goes is one thing but the entire thing is broken on who makes those decisions and how they are carried out. We need to stop fighting amongst ourselves, that’s what the people in power want so they stay in power.
The system had failed our police in many ways. The response had been greater protection for “bad cops” which honestly just puts everyone in more danger. Of course someone who assaults an officer should be held accountable - if police leadership and/or political leaders are causing that not to happen then it needs to change! See, we are on the same side.
We need strong community ties between people and the police/other support workers and first responders. Protecting racist cops who act illegally under the guise of a badge helps no one. The systems that perpetuate that- funding, court system, education, company practices etc - and keep minority groups (including women) down need to be changed. That is what is behind BLM.
yes, we do agree on most of this also, but you have to watch what is all behind the BLM or the shoot offs using that cause, you have the NY BLM or one of those leaders calling to burn down the system literally or figuratively whatever is necessary if their demands are not met. I also saw an interview where the interviewer asked if one of the goals was to make the police departments more diverse. The answer was "if a black person becomes a cop they are no longer black". So how do you ever please them? What does it take? Totally agree there needs to be changes from politicians down to the beat cop but the other side needs to be able to make changes also. If I say there is a major problem of black on black crime I am considered a racist. If black people say that they are also considered racist. Being told BLM only cares about crimes against black by white cops. Seriously 9 black men were killed last year by cops. There are 9 black people killed every day in these big cities by each other. Why is that a bad issue to want to address as well. There was a pastor in Brooklyn or the Bronx who said but , yes there needs to be change in the policing but also they need to do things in their own neighborhoods. Take some of the money and use it for programs to help youth, keep them out of gangs. Get rid of the gangs if possible. Do all necessary to keep dealers from getting people hooked and into crimes to get more money to support the habits. There can be improvement in many areas of life quality but the community needs to want to help and get involved in that. Not depend on cops or anyone else to take care of it as has been the case for a long time now. They can't even try at least in NYC as the plain clothes cops have been closed down. That means more guns, drugs and sex traffic will keep happening and get worse.
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| Posted 7/8/20 7:06 AM |
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