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Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!

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w8andsee
LIF Adult

Member since 10/09

1193 total posts

Name:

Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!

Posted by drpepper318

What’s so bad about this “agenda”?? To promote & help with giving the unborn a chance at life & the woman a chance at being a mother is “pro life”. Yet people scoff and act like there’s ill intent there & we should tell them to go with the abortion instead. I don’t understand that.



The problem is that there is no help or not enough help after the child is born. I can't force my opinion on a woman when I'm not the one that is going to support her. A woman should have the ability to choose if she wants to be a mom. It shouldn't be forced upon her.

Posted 1/23/19 4:02 PM
 
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LuckyStar
LIF Adult

Member since 7/14

7271 total posts

Name:

Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!

Posted by drpepper318



Because it serves their agenda.



It truly amazes me & saddens me that being pro life is considered an “agenda” that needs to be stopped and should be bullied as I’ve seen a few times in this thread... now I’m going off topic here by referring to the VERY vast majority of abortions that take place early & are for the woman’s convenience, no medical reasoning involved... NOT referring at all to the the rarer tragic ones where the baby will not survive.... why NOT empower women to feel that they CAN do it, show them they can give their child the gift of life & rather than ruining their own life, it can actually fulfill their own life.. why not GIVE them the resources & whatever they need to do it successfully... or help them lovingly place their child for adoption... rather than jumping right to abortion rights... this seems much more “pro woman” to me. This is what I hope for in supporting pro life organizations such as Bridge to Life. I think a lot of women have abortions because they feel there’s no other option... and many do regret and think “what if?” What’s so bad about showing them a sonogram with their baby’s heartbeat to make them realize there’s a life there & they have the power to nurture & protect it?
What’s so bad about this “agenda”?? To promote & help with giving the unborn a chance at life & the woman a chance at being a mother is “pro life”. Yet people scoff and act like there’s ill intent there & we should tell them to go with the abortion instead. I don’t understand that.



Because not every woman wants to be a mother. Not every woman should be a mother. Some women’s lives will be ruined by having children. I don’t think they should be forced to be a mother against their will because someone else thinks a child is a gift.

Posted 1/23/19 4:08 PM
 

MM2004
...

Member since 5/05

1854 total posts

Name:

Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!

Then these women should be getting their tubes tied.
Abortion is not birth control.

And I'm sure there are plenty of women out there getting abortions but refuse to get sterilized because maybe they will want kids later or meet the "right" guy.

As my grandma used to say..."Keep your legs crossed, not your fingers crossed!"

Posted by LuckyStar

Posted by drpepper318



Because it serves their agenda.



It truly amazes me & saddens me that being pro life is considered an “agenda” that needs to be stopped and should be bullied as I’ve seen a few times in this thread... now I’m going off topic here by referring to the VERY vast majority of abortions that take place early & are for the woman’s convenience, no medical reasoning involved... NOT referring at all to the the rarer tragic ones where the baby will not survive.... why NOT empower women to feel that they CAN do it, show them they can give their child the gift of life & rather than ruining their own life, it can actually fulfill their own life.. why not GIVE them the resources & whatever they need to do it successfully... or help them lovingly place their child for adoption... rather than jumping right to abortion rights... this seems much more “pro woman” to me. This is what I hope for in supporting pro life organizations such as Bridge to Life. I think a lot of women have abortions because they feel there’s no other option... and many do regret and think “what if?” What’s so bad about showing them a sonogram with their baby’s heartbeat to make them realize there’s a life there & they have the power to nurture & protect it?
What’s so bad about this “agenda”?? To promote & help with giving the unborn a chance at life & the woman a chance at being a mother is “pro life”. Yet people scoff and act like there’s ill intent there & we should tell them to go with the abortion instead. I don’t understand that.



Because not every woman wants to be a mother. Not every woman should be a mother. Some women’s lives will be ruined by having children. I don’t think they should be forced to be a mother against their will because someone else thinks a child is a gift.

Posted 1/23/19 4:13 PM
 

CookiePuss
Cake from Outer Space!

Member since 5/05

14007 total posts

Name:

Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!

Posted by drpepper318



Because it serves their agenda.



It truly amazes me & saddens me that being pro life is considered an “agenda” that needs to be stopped and should be bullied as I’ve seen a few times in this thread... now I’m going off topic here by referring to the VERY vast majority of abortions that take place early & are for the woman’s convenience, no medical reasoning involved... NOT referring at all to the the rarer tragic ones where the baby will not survive.... why NOT empower women to feel that they CAN do it, show them they can give their child the gift of life & rather than ruining their own life, it can actually fulfill their own life.. why not GIVE them the resources & whatever they need to do it successfully... or help them lovingly place their child for adoption... rather than jumping right to abortion rights... this seems much more “pro woman” to me. This is what I hope for in supporting pro life organizations such as Bridge to Life. I think a lot of women have abortions because they feel there’s no other option... and many do regret and think “what if?” What’s so bad about showing them a sonogram with their baby’s heartbeat to make them realize there’s a life there & they have the power to nurture & protect it?
What’s so bad about this “agenda”?? To promote & help with giving the unborn a chance at life & the woman a chance at being a mother is “pro life”. Yet people scoff and act like there’s ill intent there & we should tell them to go with the abortion instead. I don’t understand that.



i don't understand why you have completely disregarded any of my quotes to you in regards to your misrepresentations of the legislation. No one is bullying you as people are pointing out that you are stating facts that are not correct.
But I am going to address your post above.
If you want an agenda...have one that promotes a living wage as the minimum wage
Promote a maternity/paternity leave policy in this country that actually makes it possible for a new mother to stay home with her new baby. Look to other industrialized countries for support as they already do it. Not just FMLA that is unpaid and only offered to those employing 50 more employees especially since a large percentage of employers are small employers with less then 50 employees
Support judicial means of getting said FATHERS of babies to pay support without jumping through hoops to get the financial support needed for these babies. Heck...why not make them responsible in some physical way to raise their babies.
How about giving them the support to raise children in ways that doesn't perpetuate the poverty cycle...you know because if you make over some ridiculously low amount annually - you no longer qualify for programs but you are still not at a wage level that you can support yourself. Single moms make up almost 27% of the poor in this country. The child Poverty Rate is 17.5%, therefore, about one in five children are in a poverty status.
We need to put our money where our mouth is if we are going to govern reproduction of women in this country.

Message edited 1/23/2019 4:18:03 PM.

Posted 1/23/19 4:15 PM
 

mrsrainbow
LIF Adult

Member since 1/17

1465 total posts

Name:

Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!

Posted by MM2004

Then these women should be getting their tubes tied.
Abortion is not birth control.

And I'm sure there are plenty of women out there getting abortions but refuse to get sterilized because maybe they will want kids later or meet the "right" guy.

As my grandma used to say..."Keep your legs crossed, not your fingers crossed!"

Posted by LuckyStar

Posted by drpepper318



Because it serves their agenda.



It truly amazes me & saddens me that being pro life is considered an “agenda” that needs to be stopped and should be bullied as I’ve seen a few times in this thread... now I’m going off topic here by referring to the VERY vast majority of abortions that take place early & are for the woman’s convenience, no medical reasoning involved... NOT referring at all to the the rarer tragic ones where the baby will not survive.... why NOT empower women to feel that they CAN do it, show them they can give their child the gift of life & rather than ruining their own life, it can actually fulfill their own life.. why not GIVE them the resources & whatever they need to do it successfully... or help them lovingly place their child for adoption... rather than jumping right to abortion rights... this seems much more “pro woman” to me. This is what I hope for in supporting pro life organizations such as Bridge to Life. I think a lot of women have abortions because they feel there’s no other option... and many do regret and think “what if?” What’s so bad about showing them a sonogram with their baby’s heartbeat to make them realize there’s a life there & they have the power to nurture & protect it?
What’s so bad about this “agenda”?? To promote & help with giving the unborn a chance at life & the woman a chance at being a mother is “pro life”. Yet people scoff and act like there’s ill intent there & we should tell them to go with the abortion instead. I don’t understand that.



Because not every woman wants to be a mother. Not every woman should be a mother. Some women’s lives will be ruined by having children. I don’t think they should be forced to be a mother against their will because someone else thinks a child is a gift.




Women who are raped?

Women who are in religious cults and brainwashed?

Women who are abused?

Women who do not have access to health insurance or prenatal or gynecological care? And oops the condom broke?

The absolute morality of some of you is just astounding. The world is not black and white and it's baffling how you act like you know everything.

Posted 1/23/19 4:20 PM
 

LuckyStar
LIF Adult

Member since 7/14

7271 total posts

Name:

Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!

Posted by MM2004

Then these women should be getting their tubes tied.
Abortion is not birth control.

And I'm sure there are plenty of women out there getting abortions but refuse to get sterilized because maybe they will want kids later or meet the "right" guy.

As my grandma used to say..."Keep your legs crossed, not your fingers crossed!"

Posted by LuckyStar

Posted by drpepper318



Because it serves their agenda.



It truly amazes me & saddens me that being pro life is considered an “agenda” that needs to be stopped and should be bullied as I’ve seen a few times in this thread... now I’m going off topic here by referring to the VERY vast majority of abortions that take place early & are for the woman’s convenience, no medical reasoning involved... NOT referring at all to the the rarer tragic ones where the baby will not survive.... why NOT empower women to feel that they CAN do it, show them they can give their child the gift of life & rather than ruining their own life, it can actually fulfill their own life.. why not GIVE them the resources & whatever they need to do it successfully... or help them lovingly place their child for adoption... rather than jumping right to abortion rights... this seems much more “pro woman” to me. This is what I hope for in supporting pro life organizations such as Bridge to Life. I think a lot of women have abortions because they feel there’s no other option... and many do regret and think “what if?” What’s so bad about showing them a sonogram with their baby’s heartbeat to make them realize there’s a life there & they have the power to nurture & protect it?
What’s so bad about this “agenda”?? To promote & help with giving the unborn a chance at life & the woman a chance at being a mother is “pro life”. Yet people scoff and act like there’s ill intent there & we should tell them to go with the abortion instead. I don’t understand that.



Because not every woman wants to be a mother. Not every woman should be a mother. Some women’s lives will be ruined by having children. I don’t think they should be forced to be a mother against their will because someone else thinks a child is a gift.




I agree they should be using some form of birth control.

However, who the hell am I to tell them that they must carry and raise a child they don’t want?

Posted 1/23/19 4:20 PM
 

mrsrainbow
LIF Adult

Member since 1/17

1465 total posts

Name:

Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!

Posted by CookiePuss

Posted by drpepper318



Because it serves their agenda.



It truly amazes me & saddens me that being pro life is considered an “agenda” that needs to be stopped and should be bullied as I’ve seen a few times in this thread... now I’m going off topic here by referring to the VERY vast majority of abortions that take place early & are for the woman’s convenience, no medical reasoning involved... NOT referring at all to the the rarer tragic ones where the baby will not survive.... why NOT empower women to feel that they CAN do it, show them they can give their child the gift of life & rather than ruining their own life, it can actually fulfill their own life.. why not GIVE them the resources & whatever they need to do it successfully... or help them lovingly place their child for adoption... rather than jumping right to abortion rights... this seems much more “pro woman” to me. This is what I hope for in supporting pro life organizations such as Bridge to Life. I think a lot of women have abortions because they feel there’s no other option... and many do regret and think “what if?” What’s so bad about showing them a sonogram with their baby’s heartbeat to make them realize there’s a life there & they have the power to nurture & protect it?
What’s so bad about this “agenda”?? To promote & help with giving the unborn a chance at life & the woman a chance at being a mother is “pro life”. Yet people scoff and act like there’s ill intent there & we should tell them to go with the abortion instead. I don’t understand that.



i don't understand why you have completely disregarded any of my quotes to you in regards to your misrepresentations of the legislation. No one is bullying you as people are pointing out that you are stating facts that are not correct.
But I am going to address your post above.
If you want an agenda...have one that promotes a living wage as the minimum wage
Promote a maternity/paternity leave policy in this country that actually makes it possible for a new mother to stay home with her new baby. Look to other industrialized countries for support as they already do it. Not just FMLA that is unpaid and only offered to those employing 50 more employees especially since a large percentage of employers are small employers with less then 50 employees
Support judicial means of getting said FATHERS of babies to pay support without jumping through hoops to get the financial support needed for these babies. Heck...why not make them responsible in some physical way to raise their babies.
How about giving them the support to raise children in ways that doesn't perpetuate the poverty cycle...you know because if you make over some ridiculously low amount annually - you no longer qualify for programs but you are still not at a wage level that you can support yourself. Single moms make up almost 27% of the poor in this country. The child Poverty Rate is 17.5%, therefore, about one in five children are in a poverty status.
We need to put our money where our mouth is if we are going to govern reproduction of women in this country.



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Posted 1/23/19 4:21 PM
 

LSP2005
Bunny kisses are so cute!

Member since 5/05

19453 total posts

Name:
L

Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!

You want those children then let's see you adopt them. Oh but they dont have universal health care, or free preschool, or money for groceries. Frankly, not everyone is cut out to be a parent. If you don't want an abortion, don't get one. But you do not belong in anyone else's uterus. I don't get involved in your health care decisions and you dont belong in anyone else's either. Why should someone who was raped or a victim of incest be forced to carry that daily reminder and go through the forced trauma of labor. Why should she be forced to do that? If you had cancer should you get treatment or is it g-d's will you die a painful death that could be prevented?

Posted 1/23/19 4:23 PM
 

drpepper318
MIR MIR MIR!

Member since 6/07

8274 total posts

Name:
me

Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!

Posted by CookiePuss

Posted by drpepper318



Because it serves their agenda.



It truly amazes me & saddens me that being pro life is considered an “agenda” that needs to be stopped and should be bullied as I’ve seen a few times in this thread... now I’m going off topic here by referring to the VERY vast majority of abortions that take place early & are for the woman’s convenience, no medical reasoning involved... NOT referring at all to the the rarer tragic ones where the baby will not survive.... why NOT empower women to feel that they CAN do it, show them they can give their child the gift of life & rather than ruining their own life, it can actually fulfill their own life.. why not GIVE them the resources & whatever they need to do it successfully... or help them lovingly place their child for adoption... rather than jumping right to abortion rights... this seems much more “pro woman” to me. This is what I hope for in supporting pro life organizations such as Bridge to Life. I think a lot of women have abortions because they feel there’s no other option... and many do regret and think “what if?” What’s so bad about showing them a sonogram with their baby’s heartbeat to make them realize there’s a life there & they have the power to nurture & protect it?
What’s so bad about this “agenda”?? To promote & help with giving the unborn a chance at life & the woman a chance at being a mother is “pro life”. Yet people scoff and act like there’s ill intent there & we should tell them to go with the abortion instead. I don’t understand that.



i don't understand why you have completely disregarded any of my quotes to you in regards to your misrepresentations of the legislation. No one is bullying you as people are pointing out that you are stating facts that are not correct.
But I am going to address your post above.
If you want an agenda...have one that promotes a living wage as the minimum wage
Promote a maternity/paternity leave policy in this country that actually makes it possible for a new mother to stay home with her new baby. Look to other industrialized countries for support as they already do it. Not just FMLA that is unpaid and only offered to those employing 50 more employees especially since a large percentage of employers are small employers with less then 50 employees
Support judicial means of getting said FATHERS of babies to pay support without jumping through hoops to get the financial support needed for these babies. Heck...why not make them responsible in some physical way to raise their babies.
How about giving them the support to raise children in ways that doesn't perpetuate the poverty cycle...you know because if you make over some ridiculously low amount annually - you no longer qualify for programs but you are still not at a wage level that you can support yourself. Single moms make up almost 27% of the poor in this country. The child Poverty Rate is 17.5%, therefore, about one in five children are in a poverty status.
We need to put our money where our mouth is if we are going to govern reproduction of women in this country.


You said how you were going to address my post above and you didn’t actually refer to it at all.
As for the law, I’m looking into it and to me it’s awful. Taking away protections to save babies that are born alive during abortions. Expanding the number of people who can commit abortion to nurse practitioners and midwives, not just doctors anymore. And giving these doctors more legal protections which I don’t agree with. Allowing abortion to the very end of pregnancy as I already stated... rather than a c section. Correct me if I misread any of that. Doesn’t seem like progress to me.

Posted 1/23/19 4:37 PM
 

RainyDay
LIF Adult

Member since 6/15

3986 total posts

Name:

Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!

Posted by LSP2005

You want those children then let's see you adopt them. Oh but they dont have universal health care, or free preschool, or money for groceries. Frankly, not everyone is cut out to be a parent. If you don't want an abortion, don't get one. But you do not belong in anyone else's uterus. I don't get involved in your health care decisions and you dont belong in anyone else's either. Why should someone who was raped or a victim of incest be forced to carry that daily reminder and go through the forced trauma of labor. Why should she be forced to do that? If you had cancer should you get treatment or is it g-d's will you die a painful death that could be prevented?




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Posted 1/23/19 4:42 PM
 

starbrightgirl8
LIF Adolescent

Member since 1/16

537 total posts

Name:

Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!

Posted by MM2004

Then these women should be getting their tubes tied.
Abortion is not birth control.

And I'm sure there are plenty of women out there getting abortions but refuse to get sterilized because maybe they will want kids later or meet the "right" guy.

As my grandma used to say..."Keep your legs crossed, not your fingers crossed!"




Wow, women who aren't ready to have kids should be sterilized. How about the men who don't want to have kids? Should they be forced to vasectomies so they don't accidentally knock someone up?

Abortion isn't birth control, but it's important to have when your birth control fails. Nobody is going to get monthly abortions for the fun of it.

Sex happens. If you only have sex for the purpose of procreation, then good for you, but most people have it for other reasons. Even if you take precautions, pregnancy can result. It's a steep price to say that your punishment for sex should be pregnancy. Pregnancy is 9 months of caring for another human being inside you. You can have serious health complications during pregnancy. After giving birth, you can have on going serious health complications. Why should women be forced to pay that penalty for being sexually active? Child birth shouldn't be forced on anyone.

I had an abortion. Not because I was at risk, but because I wasn't ready to have a kid. My boyfriend and I weren't careful enough, I got pregnant, I wasn't ready to have a kid, and so I got an abortion. It was a huge relief, and I'd make the same decision again.

When I was ready to have a kid, I had complications in child birth and now I have permanent damage that is an ongoing health issue for me. Actually raising a kid is one of the hardest things I've ever done, but I was ready and I wanted it, and I worked through it.

If hadn't had an abortion when I did, I'm not sure I could have handled the challenges of being a parent as well, and I would have been a worse parent for it. Forcing parenthood on people not only effects the parents but also the children. I'm not saying everyone in my situation should get an abortion. I'm saying it's a personal choice and should be respected that they're making the best decision for themselves and their children (present and future).

Posted 1/23/19 4:47 PM
 

LSP2005
Bunny kisses are so cute!

Member since 5/05

19453 total posts

Name:
L

Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!

Are you a dr, nurse practitioner, or midwife? No, so you will not have to perform these procedures. Yes, then guess what, you still don't have to do it. Just because you don't like something does not the law make. No one is making you get an abortion. No one is making you perform an abortion. Literally, this is not your body.

If you break your arm, should you get it reset? It was an accident, but was it g-d's will you got hirt?

If your husband is impotent, is it g-d's will you can no longer have intercourse?

If you have diabetes, should you take synthetic insulin? Or is it g-d's will you die?

While your grandmother may have shamed you, I am glad she was not mine. Life is not black and white.FWIW, I have never had an abortion, but will defend your right to have one.

Posted 1/23/19 4:47 PM
 

eroxgirl
My Loves

Member since 5/05

15697 total posts

Name:
Rebecca

Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!

Posted by drpepper318

Posted by CookiePuss

Posted by drpepper318



Because it serves their agenda.



It truly amazes me & saddens me that being pro life is considered an “agenda” that needs to be stopped and should be bullied as I’ve seen a few times in this thread... now I’m going off topic here by referring to the VERY vast majority of abortions that take place early & are for the woman’s convenience, no medical reasoning involved... NOT referring at all to the the rarer tragic ones where the baby will not survive.... why NOT empower women to feel that they CAN do it, show them they can give their child the gift of life & rather than ruining their own life, it can actually fulfill their own life.. why not GIVE them the resources & whatever they need to do it successfully... or help them lovingly place their child for adoption... rather than jumping right to abortion rights... this seems much more “pro woman” to me. This is what I hope for in supporting pro life organizations such as Bridge to Life. I think a lot of women have abortions because they feel there’s no other option... and many do regret and think “what if?” What’s so bad about showing them a sonogram with their baby’s heartbeat to make them realize there’s a life there & they have the power to nurture & protect it?
What’s so bad about this “agenda”?? To promote & help with giving the unborn a chance at life & the woman a chance at being a mother is “pro life”. Yet people scoff and act like there’s ill intent there & we should tell them to go with the abortion instead. I don’t understand that.



i don't understand why you have completely disregarded any of my quotes to you in regards to your misrepresentations of the legislation. No one is bullying you as people are pointing out that you are stating facts that are not correct.
But I am going to address your post above.
If you want an agenda...have one that promotes a living wage as the minimum wage
Promote a maternity/paternity leave policy in this country that actually makes it possible for a new mother to stay home with her new baby. Look to other industrialized countries for support as they already do it. Not just FMLA that is unpaid and only offered to those employing 50 more employees especially since a large percentage of employers are small employers with less then 50 employees
Support judicial means of getting said FATHERS of babies to pay support without jumping through hoops to get the financial support needed for these babies. Heck...why not make them responsible in some physical way to raise their babies.
How about giving them the support to raise children in ways that doesn't perpetuate the poverty cycle...you know because if you make over some ridiculously low amount annually - you no longer qualify for programs but you are still not at a wage level that you can support yourself. Single moms make up almost 27% of the poor in this country. The child Poverty Rate is 17.5%, therefore, about one in five children are in a poverty status.
We need to put our money where our mouth is if we are going to govern reproduction of women in this country.


You said how you were going to address my post above and you didn’t actually refer to it at all.
As for the law, I’m looking into it and to me it’s awful. Taking away protections to save babies that are born alive during abortions. Expanding the number of people who can commit abortion to nurse practitioners and midwives, not just doctors anymore. And giving these doctors more legal protections which I don’t agree with. Allowing abortion to the very end of pregnancy as I already stated... rather than a c section. Correct me if I misread any of that. Doesn’t seem like progress to me.



A doctor doesn't "commit" abortion... he or she performs one

Many women prefer to be treated by a doula or nurse practitioners for pre-natal care. I had a friend who had 4 babies delivered by a doula.

When a woman's baby dies in utero and they seek medical treatment for the removal of the dead fetus, her paperwork will read "abortion." I know this because a friend suffered through it. She wanted that baby more than anything.

"May be performed by a licensed, certified, or authorized practitioner within 24 weeks from the commencement of pregnancy, or there is an absence of fetal viability, or at any time when necessary to protect a patient's life or health."

I didn't check all the cross references where it says what criminality is being appealed, but it's really not this horrific baby-murdering bill it's being presented as by pro-lifers.

Posted 1/23/19 4:48 PM
 

MrsT809
LIF Adult

Member since 9/09

12167 total posts

Name:

Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!

Posted by drpepper318

Posted by CookiePuss

Posted by drpepper318



Because it serves their agenda.



It truly amazes me & saddens me that being pro life is considered an “agenda” that needs to be stopped and should be bullied as I’ve seen a few times in this thread... now I’m going off topic here by referring to the VERY vast majority of abortions that take place early & are for the woman’s convenience, no medical reasoning involved... NOT referring at all to the the rarer tragic ones where the baby will not survive.... why NOT empower women to feel that they CAN do it, show them they can give their child the gift of life & rather than ruining their own life, it can actually fulfill their own life.. why not GIVE them the resources & whatever they need to do it successfully... or help them lovingly place their child for adoption... rather than jumping right to abortion rights... this seems much more “pro woman” to me. This is what I hope for in supporting pro life organizations such as Bridge to Life. I think a lot of women have abortions because they feel there’s no other option... and many do regret and think “what if?” What’s so bad about showing them a sonogram with their baby’s heartbeat to make them realize there’s a life there & they have the power to nurture & protect it?
What’s so bad about this “agenda”?? To promote & help with giving the unborn a chance at life & the woman a chance at being a mother is “pro life”. Yet people scoff and act like there’s ill intent there & we should tell them to go with the abortion instead. I don’t understand that.



i don't understand why you have completely disregarded any of my quotes to you in regards to your misrepresentations of the legislation. No one is bullying you as people are pointing out that you are stating facts that are not correct.
But I am going to address your post above.
If you want an agenda...have one that promotes a living wage as the minimum wage
Promote a maternity/paternity leave policy in this country that actually makes it possible for a new mother to stay home with her new baby. Look to other industrialized countries for support as they already do it. Not just FMLA that is unpaid and only offered to those employing 50 more employees especially since a large percentage of employers are small employers with less then 50 employees
Support judicial means of getting said FATHERS of babies to pay support without jumping through hoops to get the financial support needed for these babies. Heck...why not make them responsible in some physical way to raise their babies.
How about giving them the support to raise children in ways that doesn't perpetuate the poverty cycle...you know because if you make over some ridiculously low amount annually - you no longer qualify for programs but you are still not at a wage level that you can support yourself. Single moms make up almost 27% of the poor in this country. The child Poverty Rate is 17.5%, therefore, about one in five children are in a poverty status.
We need to put our money where our mouth is if we are going to govern reproduction of women in this country.


You said how you were going to address my post above and you didn’t actually refer to it at all.
As for the law, I’m looking into it and to me it’s awful. Taking away protections to save babies that are born alive during abortions. Expanding the number of people who can commit abortion to nurse practitioners and midwives, not just doctors anymore. And giving these doctors more legal protections which I don’t agree with. Allowing abortion to the very end of pregnancy as I already stated... rather than a c section. Correct me if I misread any of that. Doesn’t seem like progress to me.



Again, more misinformation. If an abortion is performed (not committed) properly there is no baby born alive. Also, you can't just get a c section for the hell of it. Most women are forced to have inductions/ vaginal births even when the baby has already passed. So up until now, if you're beyond 24 weeks you were supposed to continue walking around pregnant, waiting for the baby to pass, so you can go through a stillbirth. That should not be and I'm glad it's been remedied.

Posted 1/23/19 4:49 PM
 

PhyllisNJoe
My Box Is Broken

Member since 6/11

9145 total posts

Name:
Phyllis

Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!

Posted by eroxgirl

Posted by drpepper318

Posted by CookiePuss

Posted by drpepper318



Because it serves their agenda.



It truly amazes me & saddens me that being pro life is considered an “agenda” that needs to be stopped and should be bullied as I’ve seen a few times in this thread... now I’m going off topic here by referring to the VERY vast majority of abortions that take place early & are for the woman’s convenience, no medical reasoning involved... NOT referring at all to the the rarer tragic ones where the baby will not survive.... why NOT empower women to feel that they CAN do it, show them they can give their child the gift of life & rather than ruining their own life, it can actually fulfill their own life.. why not GIVE them the resources & whatever they need to do it successfully... or help them lovingly place their child for adoption... rather than jumping right to abortion rights... this seems much more “pro woman” to me. This is what I hope for in supporting pro life organizations such as Bridge to Life. I think a lot of women have abortions because they feel there’s no other option... and many do regret and think “what if?” What’s so bad about showing them a sonogram with their baby’s heartbeat to make them realize there’s a life there & they have the power to nurture & protect it?
What’s so bad about this “agenda”?? To promote & help with giving the unborn a chance at life & the woman a chance at being a mother is “pro life”. Yet people scoff and act like there’s ill intent there & we should tell them to go with the abortion instead. I don’t understand that.



i don't understand why you have completely disregarded any of my quotes to you in regards to your misrepresentations of the legislation. No one is bullying you as people are pointing out that you are stating facts that are not correct.
But I am going to address your post above.
If you want an agenda...have one that promotes a living wage as the minimum wage
Promote a maternity/paternity leave policy in this country that actually makes it possible for a new mother to stay home with her new baby. Look to other industrialized countries for support as they already do it. Not just FMLA that is unpaid and only offered to those employing 50 more employees especially since a large percentage of employers are small employers with less then 50 employees
Support judicial means of getting said FATHERS of babies to pay support without jumping through hoops to get the financial support needed for these babies. Heck...why not make them responsible in some physical way to raise their babies.
How about giving them the support to raise children in ways that doesn't perpetuate the poverty cycle...you know because if you make over some ridiculously low amount annually - you no longer qualify for programs but you are still not at a wage level that you can support yourself. Single moms make up almost 27% of the poor in this country. The child Poverty Rate is 17.5%, therefore, about one in five children are in a poverty status.
We need to put our money where our mouth is if we are going to govern reproduction of women in this country.


You said how you were going to address my post above and you didn’t actually refer to it at all.
As for the law, I’m looking into it and to me it’s awful. Taking away protections to save babies that are born alive during abortions. Expanding the number of people who can commit abortion to nurse practitioners and midwives, not just doctors anymore. And giving these doctors more legal protections which I don’t agree with. Allowing abortion to the very end of pregnancy as I already stated... rather than a c section. Correct me if I misread any of that. Doesn’t seem like progress to me.



A doctor doesn't "commit" abortion... he or she performs one

Many women prefer to be treated by a doula or nurse practitioners for pre-natal care. I had a friend who had 4 babies delivered by a doula.

When a woman's baby dies in utero and they seek medical treatment for the removal of the dead fetus, her paperwork will read "abortion." I know this because a friend suffered through it. She wanted that baby more than anything.

"May be performed by a licensed, certified, or authorized practitioner within 24 weeks from the commencement of pregnancy, or there is an absence of fetal viability, or at any time when necessary to protect a patient's life or health."

I didn't check all the cross references where it says what criminality is being appealed, but it's really not this horrific baby-murdering bill it's being presented as by pro-lifers.



What does “patients life or HEALTH” mean? What does this mean? That’s where I am stuck. I can understand in a matter of life and death, choosing the life of the mother is the route most will go. I’m not so clear on “health” though. Will it include something like mental anguish? Severe mental anguish over regret? Will that be placed in the “health” category. Because anything that can cause heart failure, stroke, kidneys Failure, etc will effect the patients “life”. But why was health put in there ? I feel like it’s a loophole and I don’t like it at all.
My opinion.

Message edited 1/23/2019 4:55:20 PM.

Posted 1/23/19 4:54 PM
 

mrsrainbow
LIF Adult

Member since 1/17

1465 total posts

Name:

Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!

Honestly, at this point, I feel really...I don't what the word is...sad? Disgusted? that Dr. Pepper just doubles down on her vitriol. But that's her right. I guess what actually disheartens me is that this way of thinking is what trickles down to children and how they grow up with such misinformed ways of thinking. The vicious cycle just repeats itself.

Posted 1/23/19 4:56 PM
 

hmm
Sweet

Member since 1/14

7980 total posts

Name:

Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!

Im not reading every post, but in NY up tp 24 weeks is legal to have an abortion, after that women have to go to Colorado for an abortion and it can cost thousands. Women travel from Upstate and the Bahamas to NY for abortions

Message edited 1/23/2019 4:58:12 PM.

Posted 1/23/19 4:57 PM
 

mrsrainbow
LIF Adult

Member since 1/17

1465 total posts

Name:

Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!

Posted by PhyllisNJoe

Posted by eroxgirl

Posted by drpepper318

Posted by CookiePuss

Posted by drpepper318



Because it serves their agenda.



It truly amazes me & saddens me that being pro life is considered an “agenda” that needs to be stopped and should be bullied as I’ve seen a few times in this thread... now I’m going off topic here by referring to the VERY vast majority of abortions that take place early & are for the woman’s convenience, no medical reasoning involved... NOT referring at all to the the rarer tragic ones where the baby will not survive.... why NOT empower women to feel that they CAN do it, show them they can give their child the gift of life & rather than ruining their own life, it can actually fulfill their own life.. why not GIVE them the resources & whatever they need to do it successfully... or help them lovingly place their child for adoption... rather than jumping right to abortion rights... this seems much more “pro woman” to me. This is what I hope for in supporting pro life organizations such as Bridge to Life. I think a lot of women have abortions because they feel there’s no other option... and many do regret and think “what if?” What’s so bad about showing them a sonogram with their baby’s heartbeat to make them realize there’s a life there & they have the power to nurture & protect it?
What’s so bad about this “agenda”?? To promote & help with giving the unborn a chance at life & the woman a chance at being a mother is “pro life”. Yet people scoff and act like there’s ill intent there & we should tell them to go with the abortion instead. I don’t understand that.



i don't understand why you have completely disregarded any of my quotes to you in regards to your misrepresentations of the legislation. No one is bullying you as people are pointing out that you are stating facts that are not correct.
But I am going to address your post above.
If you want an agenda...have one that promotes a living wage as the minimum wage
Promote a maternity/paternity leave policy in this country that actually makes it possible for a new mother to stay home with her new baby. Look to other industrialized countries for support as they already do it. Not just FMLA that is unpaid and only offered to those employing 50 more employees especially since a large percentage of employers are small employers with less then 50 employees
Support judicial means of getting said FATHERS of babies to pay support without jumping through hoops to get the financial support needed for these babies. Heck...why not make them responsible in some physical way to raise their babies.
How about giving them the support to raise children in ways that doesn't perpetuate the poverty cycle...you know because if you make over some ridiculously low amount annually - you no longer qualify for programs but you are still not at a wage level that you can support yourself. Single moms make up almost 27% of the poor in this country. The child Poverty Rate is 17.5%, therefore, about one in five children are in a poverty status.
We need to put our money where our mouth is if we are going to govern reproduction of women in this country.


You said how you were going to address my post above and you didn’t actually refer to it at all.
As for the law, I’m looking into it and to me it’s awful. Taking away protections to save babies that are born alive during abortions. Expanding the number of people who can commit abortion to nurse practitioners and midwives, not just doctors anymore. And giving these doctors more legal protections which I don’t agree with. Allowing abortion to the very end of pregnancy as I already stated... rather than a c section. Correct me if I misread any of that. Doesn’t seem like progress to me.



A doctor doesn't "commit" abortion... he or she performs one

Many women prefer to be treated by a doula or nurse practitioners for pre-natal care. I had a friend who had 4 babies delivered by a doula.

When a woman's baby dies in utero and they seek medical treatment for the removal of the dead fetus, her paperwork will read "abortion." I know this because a friend suffered through it. She wanted that baby more than anything.

"May be performed by a licensed, certified, or authorized practitioner within 24 weeks from the commencement of pregnancy, or there is an absence of fetal viability, or at any time when necessary to protect a patient's life or health."

I didn't check all the cross references where it says what criminality is being appealed, but it's really not this horrific baby-murdering bill it's being presented as by pro-lifers.



What does “patients life or HEALTH” mean? What does this mean? That’s where I am stuck. I can understand in a matter of life and death, choosing the life of the mother is the route most will go. I’m not so clear on “health” though. Will it include something like mental anguish? Severe mental anguish over regret? Will that be placed in the “health” category. Because anything that can cause heart failure, stroke, kidneys Failure, etc will effect the patients “life”. But why was health put in there ? I feel like it’s a loophole and I don’t like it at all.
My opinion.



I think you'd probably need to ask a lawyer that. Health is a broad term - I am not going to fret over the semantics of it. I read the bill line by line and it's such an incredible piece of legislation for women. I truly can't believe there are women who don't understand how important this is - you can have a religious belief of being pro-life but politically you can also be cognizant of the need for a woman's right to choose.

Posted 1/23/19 5:18 PM
 

NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..

Member since 11/09

54915 total posts

Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!

Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!

Posted by starbrightgirl8

Posted by MM2004

Then these women should be getting their tubes tied.
Abortion is not birth control.

And I'm sure there are plenty of women out there getting abortions but refuse to get sterilized because maybe they will want kids later or meet the "right" guy.

As my grandma used to say..."Keep your legs crossed, not your fingers crossed!"




Wow, women who aren't ready to have kids should be sterilized. How about the men who don't want to have kids? Should they be forced to vasectomies so they don't accidentally knock someone up?

Abortion isn't birth control, but it's important to have when your birth control fails. Nobody is going to get monthly abortions for the fun of it.

Sex happens. If you only have sex for the purpose of procreation, then good for you, but most people have it for other reasons. Even if you take precautions, pregnancy can result. It's a steep price to say that your punishment for sex should be pregnancy. Pregnancy is 9 months of caring for another human being inside you. You can have serious health complications during pregnancy. After giving birth, you can have on going serious health complications. Why should women be forced to pay that penalty for being sexually active? Child birth shouldn't be forced on anyone.

I had an abortion. Not because I was at risk, but because I wasn't ready to have a kid. My boyfriend and I weren't careful enough, I got pregnant, I wasn't ready to have a kid, and so I got an abortion. It was a huge relief, and I'd make the same decision again.

When I was ready to have a kid, I had complications in child birth and now I have permanent damage that is an ongoing health issue for me. Actually raising a kid is one of the hardest things I've ever done, but I was ready and I wanted it, and I worked through it.

If hadn't had an abortion when I did, I'm not sure I could have handled the challenges of being a parent as well, and I would have been a worse parent for it. Forcing parenthood on people not only effects the parents but also the children. I'm not saying everyone in my situation should get an abortion. I'm saying it's a personal choice and should be respected that they're making the best decision for themselves and their children (present and future).



Very well said.
I hate hate hate the thought of forcing motherhood on someone who doesn't want it as a punishment for having sex or failed birth control.
As someone who was unsure if they even wanted kids at all, the thought of it really shakes me to the core.
I was married for many years before getting pregnant and even then I cried and sobbed when the test was positive.
It was a very hard time for me.
The thought of being in that situation when I was younger, or unmarried, or whatever is terrifying to me.
I barely was able to do it at 35 years old, married and financially stable.
The balls on people that think they can force something as life altering as being a mother on others or otherwise say, well close your legs astounds me.

Posted 1/23/19 5:21 PM
 

NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..

Member since 11/09

54915 total posts

Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!

Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!

Posted by LSP2005

Are you a dr, nurse practitioner, or midwife? No, so you will not have to perform these procedures. Yes, then guess what, you still don't have to do it. Just because you don't like something does not the law make. No one is making you get an abortion. No one is making you perform an abortion. Literally, this is not your body.

If you break your arm, should you get it reset? It was an accident, but was it g-d's will you got hirt?

If your husband is impotent, is it g-d's will you can no longer have intercourse?

If you have diabetes, should you take synthetic insulin? Or is it g-d's will you die?

While your grandmother may have shamed you, I am glad she was not mine. Life is not black and white.FWIW, I have never had an abortion, but will defend your right to have one.



When you can't get pregnant on your own is that God's will too?
So does that mean any woman who had IVF or used fertility meds or procedures went against God's will?
Or does it not work that way?

Posted 1/23/19 5:24 PM
 

PhyllisNJoe
My Box Is Broken

Member since 6/11

9145 total posts

Name:
Phyllis

Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!

Posted by mrsrainbow

Posted by PhyllisNJoe


What does “patients life or HEALTH” mean? What does this mean? That’s where I am stuck. I can understand in a matter of life and death, choosing the life of the mother is the route most will go. I’m not so clear on “health” though. Will it include something like mental anguish? Severe mental anguish over regret? Will that be placed in the “health” category. Because anything that can cause heart failure, stroke, kidneys Failure, etc will effect the patients “life”. But why was health put in there ? I feel like it’s a loophole and I don’t like it at all.
My opinion.



I think you'd probably need to ask a lawyer that. Health is a broad term - I am not going to fret over the semantics of it. I read the bill line by line and it's such an incredible piece of legislation for women. I truly can't believe there are women who don't understand how important this is - you can have a religious belief of being pro-life but politically you can also be cognizant of the need for a woman's right to choose.



You can’t believe there are some women who arent for it and they can’t believe there are some women who are. That’s reality. No matter how you say it, spin it or point fingers at it. It’s a matter of opinion.

I am not pro life. I’ve always been pro choice. To a degree. I have personally known way too many people who have used abortions as BC. There’s a lot behind how I feel about the entire thing as a whole But don’t feel the need to get Into it here.

You’re probably right. An attorney may be able to explain the health end of this new law to me. I’ve spent a lot of time today to try and find the true definition of the law when it pertains to that word alone. I just see it as a loophole to take advantage of a law that was put in place to protect a woman’s choice - especially in the event of life or death. I just can’t shake the amount of people who can use and abuse it. Like people do everywhere with everything else.

Posted 1/23/19 5:49 PM
 

PhyllisNJoe
My Box Is Broken

Member since 6/11

9145 total posts

Name:
Phyllis

Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!

Posted by NervousNell

Posted by LSP2005

Are you a dr, nurse practitioner, or midwife? No, so you will not have to perform these procedures. Yes, then guess what, you still don't have to do it. Just because you don't like something does not the law make. No one is making you get an abortion. No one is making you perform an abortion. Literally, this is not your body.

If you break your arm, should you get it reset? It was an accident, but was it g-d's will you got hirt?

If your husband is impotent, is it g-d's will you can no longer have intercourse?

If you have diabetes, should you take synthetic insulin? Or is it g-d's will you die?

While your grandmother may have shamed you, I am glad she was not mine. Life is not black and white.FWIW, I have never had an abortion, but will defend your right to have one.



When you can't get pregnant on your own is that God's will too?
So does that mean any woman who had IVF or used fertility meds or procedures went against God's will?


Or does it not work that way?



Actually. Those who believe in the religious side of this, yes. It means they can’t get any help from science to have children. They don’t only believe in one side of it. Those who are truly religious usually believe in the whole thing. God knows all and it’s left to him

(
Me and god haven’t been friends for a while so I obv don’t have this belief, but many do and go on to live childless lives because of it. The belief of someone I became friendly with? “Sometimes god says no” and that works for them

Posted 1/23/19 5:52 PM
 

ChilisWife
God Bless America

Member since 5/05

3570 total posts

Name:
A.K.

Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!

The issue I have with this is that I do not understand how a 38 week old "fetus" could be treated so differently than a one day old baby.

If you are 38 weeks pregnant and a drunk driver hits you and you lose the baby, then can that driver be charged with murder or not? Does this depend on whether or not the mother "wanted" the baby?

I understand that this new law supposedly only lets you abort if the "health or life" of the mother is at risk, however what I do not understand is why the 38 week pregnant mother is going to die unless she gets an abortion. Can they not instead just deliver the baby early?

Many people are saying "you can't force someone to be a mother" and I don't entirely disagree but what happens when that mother does not want to be a mother a few days AFTER the baby is born?

We say "my body, my choice" but for some reason that only seems to be true about abortion because when it comes to vaccinations, euthanasia, and even drinking large sugary sodas, the same people yelling "my body my choice" are yelling "your body, and my decision on what you must do with it" and that seems to be okay.

Posted 1/23/19 6:20 PM
 

drpepper318
MIR MIR MIR!

Member since 6/07

8274 total posts

Name:
me

Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!

Posted by mrsrainbow

Honestly, at this point, I feel really...I don't what the word is...sad? Disgusted? that Dr. Pepper just doubles down on her vitriol. But that's her right. I guess what actually disheartens me is that this way of thinking is what trickles down to children and how they grow up with such misinformed ways of thinking. The vicious cycle just repeats itself.



Why are you picking on me for what I feel strongly about? You don’t have to like it. You’re the one who’s nasty and angry. I’ll always speak up for the unborn, too bad if you don’t want to hear it. You’re perceiving some attack on you that doesn’t exist.

Posted 1/23/19 6:24 PM
 

MrsT809
LIF Adult

Member since 9/09

12167 total posts

Name:

Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!

Posted by ChilisWife

The issue I have with this is that I do not understand how a 38 week old "fetus" could be treated so differently than a one day old baby.

If you are 38 weeks pregnant and a drunk driver hits you and you lose the baby, then can that driver be charged with murder or not? Does this depend on whether or not the mother "wanted" the baby?

I understand that this new law supposedly only lets you abort if the "health or life" of the mother is at risk, however what I do not understand is why the 38 week pregnant mother is going to die unless she gets an abortion. Can they not instead just deliver the baby early?

Many people are saying "you can't force someone to be a mother" and I don't entirely disagree but what happens when that mother does not want to be a mother a few days AFTER the baby is born?

We say "my body, my choice" but for some reason that only seems to be true about abortion because when it comes to vaccinations, euthanasia, and even drinking large sugary sodas, the same people yelling "my body my choice" are yelling "your body, and my decision on what you must do with it" and that seems to be okay.



Honestly, I can't think of a good reason a 38 week old fetus would be aborted. However, what if the mom is 32 weeks pregnant with a non viable fetus? Then it's it okay for her to have that choice? Imo, people's health and situations are so varied so why should the law make some line in the sand for all women? Let it be between a woman and her doctor.

Posted 1/23/19 6:33 PM
 
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