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Alligator Attack in Disney
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chilltocam
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Re: Alligator Attack in Disney
Here's another pic I saw posted online. Whether you consider this to be swimming or not, clearly the signs posted by Disney we inadequate to keep people out of the water. From everything I've seen and read this week, I highly doubt this was an unusual scene at that (or any other) resort. So, Disney KNEW people (and especially young kids) were going in that water and Disney KNEW there were alligators in that water. It's really sad that it had to come to this for Disney to do something about it.
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Posted 6/17/16 2:00 PM  |
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Long Island Weddings
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KGools
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Kim
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Re: Alligator Attack in Disney
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by eroxgirl
Posted by MC09
So, if I open a business, and I'm aware there is a potentially life threatening danger lurking, I even do regular sweeps but it's difficult to completely eliminate this danger... and I don't adequately warn my patrons of the existence of that danger, and one of my patrons is attacked and seriously injured or dies, I'm not accountable right? Cool, good to know.
I'm quite sure it falls under a "reasonable best efforts" clause. WHEN they know that alligators have made their way onto their property, they clear them out.
Disclaimer: I work for lawyers and should be editing a document with these phrases in it but instead I'm here because this is more interesting.
No business, no human, no living thing can be 100% perfect. If Disney maintains it's reasonable best efforts to keep its waters free from indigenous species that may cause harm to patrons, then they are not liable. I'm sure signs will be up by the end of the week, however, they are not negligent just because they don't have signs up saying that alligators may be present, when in their 40 year history, there has never before been an alligator attack on their property.
But alligators are indigenous to Florida, not just Disney but Disney World was built on swamp land. Do we need to put signs in the airport saying so? Do we need signs in California airports alerting travelers that there may be earthquakes or brush fires?
But wouldn't a sign warning of the gators be considered a part of that "reasonable best effort"?
I feel like ok maybe they made some effort, but they didn't make the best effort.
Best effort to me would not be a sign saying- no swimming- which we see here is up for interpretation. Best effort should have been a sign saying, don't go near the water, alligators!
I think that is where the issue is going to be.
If McDonalds's has to put "Caution Hot" on a hot cup of coffee or baseball stadiums need to have signs in foul ball areas that read "Be Alert: Foul Balls" then why wouldn't Disney be expected to put an alligator warning sign in places where alligators could be?
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| Posted 6/17/16 2:16 PM |
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LSP2005
Bunny kisses are so cute!
Member since 5/05 19453 total posts
Name:
L
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Re: Alligator Attack in Disney
Posted by KGools
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by eroxgirl
Posted by MC09
So, if I open a business, and I'm aware there is a potentially life threatening danger lurking, I even do regular sweeps but it's difficult to completely eliminate this danger... and I don't adequately warn my patrons of the existence of that danger, and one of my patrons is attacked and seriously injured or dies, I'm not accountable right? Cool, good to know.
I'm quite sure it falls under a "reasonable best efforts" clause. WHEN they know that alligators have made their way onto their property, they clear them out.
Disclaimer: I work for lawyers and should be editing a document with these phrases in it but instead I'm here because this is more interesting.
No business, no human, no living thing can be 100% perfect. If Disney maintains it's reasonable best efforts to keep its waters free from indigenous species that may cause harm to patrons, then they are not liable. I'm sure signs will be up by the end of the week, however, they are not negligent just because they don't have signs up saying that alligators may be present, when in their 40 year history, there has never before been an alligator attack on their property.
But alligators are indigenous to Florida, not just Disney but Disney World was built on swamp land. Do we need to put signs in the airport saying so? Do we need signs in California airports alerting travelers that there may be earthquakes or brush fires?
But wouldn't a sign warning of the gators be considered a part of that "reasonable best effort"?
I feel like ok maybe they made some effort, but they didn't make the best effort.
Best effort to me would not be a sign saying- no swimming- which we see here is up for interpretation. Best effort should have been a sign saying, don't go near the water, alligators!
I think that is where the issue is going to be.
If McDonalds's has to put "Caution Hot" on a hot cup of coffee or baseball stadiums need to have signs in foul ball areas that read "Be Alert: Foul Balls" then why wouldn't Disney be expected to put an alligator warning sign in places where alligators could be?
the poor woman from the mcdonalds incident got third degree burns from reheated coffee that mcdonalds was already warned exceeded safety limits. I do blame disney for this and I love disney. They set up an attraction, a movie night, they knew they had alligators, they advertised people in those waters, they set up chairs, they gave out beach buckets, they enticed their paying invited guests and had a known dangers which they did not disclose. They created an environment and his the danger, which was magnified by being at night, during mating season, and when they feed. I don't think a guest from Nebraska would know that alligators would be in a lake. Maybe a person from Florida would, but not someone from Nebraska. I could see the no swimming warning for bacteria, or no life guard on duty, but they were not swimming, they were walking in the water.
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| Posted 6/17/16 2:59 PM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54917 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Alligator Attack in Disney
Posted by LSP2005
Posted by KGools
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by eroxgirl
Posted by MC09
So, if I open a business, and I'm aware there is a potentially life threatening danger lurking, I even do regular sweeps but it's difficult to completely eliminate this danger... and I don't adequately warn my patrons of the existence of that danger, and one of my patrons is attacked and seriously injured or dies, I'm not accountable right? Cool, good to know.
I'm quite sure it falls under a "reasonable best efforts" clause. WHEN they know that alligators have made their way onto their property, they clear them out.
Disclaimer: I work for lawyers and should be editing a document with these phrases in it but instead I'm here because this is more interesting.
No business, no human, no living thing can be 100% perfect. If Disney maintains it's reasonable best efforts to keep its waters free from indigenous species that may cause harm to patrons, then they are not liable. I'm sure signs will be up by the end of the week, however, they are not negligent just because they don't have signs up saying that alligators may be present, when in their 40 year history, there has never before been an alligator attack on their property.
But alligators are indigenous to Florida, not just Disney but Disney World was built on swamp land. Do we need to put signs in the airport saying so? Do we need signs in California airports alerting travelers that there may be earthquakes or brush fires?
But wouldn't a sign warning of the gators be considered a part of that "reasonable best effort"?
I feel like ok maybe they made some effort, but they didn't make the best effort.
Best effort to me would not be a sign saying- no swimming- which we see here is up for interpretation. Best effort should have been a sign saying, don't go near the water, alligators!
I think that is where the issue is going to be.
If McDonalds's has to put "Caution Hot" on a hot cup of coffee or baseball stadiums need to have signs in foul ball areas that read "Be Alert: Foul Balls" then why wouldn't Disney be expected to put an alligator warning sign in places where alligators could be?
the poor woman from the mcdonalds incident got third degree burns from reheated coffee that mcdonalds was already warned exceeded safety limits. I do blame disney for this and I love disney. They set up an attraction, a movie night, they knew they had alligators, they advertised people in those waters, they set up chairs, they gave out beach buckets, they enticed their paying invited guests and had a known dangers which they did not disclose. They created an environment and his the danger, which was magnified by being at night, during mating season, and when they feed. I don't think a guest from Nebraska would know that alligators would be in a lake. Maybe a person from Florida would, but not someone from Nebraska. I could see the no swimming warning for bacteria, or no life guard on duty, but they were not swimming, they were walking in the water.
Yes. All of this.
If I am walking in the woods, in a National Park, and a bear attacks me, I really can't sue the National Park. It's known that there are bears in the wild.
Same thing with swimming in the ocean- you know there are sharks. It's going into the wild so to speak.
But at an expensive resort, with lounge chairs, activities on the "beach" etc etc I would expect a level of safety that I wouldn't in the ocean or the woods.
And I am not a Disney goer but from what everyone has been saying on this thread, they are known for taking a lot of safety precaution apparently. So if I was in Disney, where they supposedly put their guests' safety as a big priority, I would NOT expect an alligator to be lurking where they have this kind of set up and NO signs indicating as such.
That's all.
Message edited 6/17/2016 4:48:39 PM.
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| Posted 6/17/16 3:06 PM |
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BabyBMakes3
LIF Adolescent
Member since 4/13 711 total posts
Name:
Laura
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Re: Alligator Attack in Disney
A rope fence is being put up today. Some people on the Disney pages I'm on are actually PISSED about it and I cannot fathom why. 
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| Posted 6/17/16 5:01 PM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54917 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Alligator Attack in Disney
Posted by BabyBMakes3
A rope fence is being put up today. Some people on the Disney pages I'm on are actually PISSED about it and I cannot fathom why.
Ask them to let their kids walk in that water
See what they say.
Morons
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| Posted 6/17/16 5:12 PM |
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MC09
arrrghhh!!!!
Member since 2/09 5674 total posts
Name:
Me speaks pirate!
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Re: Alligator Attack in Disney
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by LSP2005
Posted by KGools
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by eroxgirl
Posted by MC09
So, if I open a business, and I'm aware there is a potentially life threatening danger lurking, I even do regular sweeps but it's difficult to completely eliminate this danger... and I don't adequately warn my patrons of the existence of that danger, and one of my patrons is attacked and seriously injured or dies, I'm not accountable right? Cool, good to know.
I'm quite sure it falls under a "reasonable best efforts" clause. WHEN they know that alligators have made their way onto their property, they clear them out.
Disclaimer: I work for lawyers and should be editing a document with these phrases in it but instead I'm here because this is more interesting.
No business, no human, no living thing can be 100% perfect. If Disney maintains it's reasonable best efforts to keep its waters free from indigenous species that may cause harm to patrons, then they are not liable. I'm sure signs will be up by the end of the week, however, they are not negligent just because they don't have signs up saying that alligators may be present, when in their 40 year history, there has never before been an alligator attack on their property.
But alligators are indigenous to Florida, not just Disney but Disney World was built on swamp land. Do we need to put signs in the airport saying so? Do we need signs in California airports alerting travelers that there may be earthquakes or brush fires?
But wouldn't a sign warning of the gators be considered a part of that "reasonable best effort"?
I feel like ok maybe they made some effort, but they didn't make the best effort.
Best effort to me would not be a sign saying- no swimming- which we see here is up for interpretation. Best effort should have been a sign saying, don't go near the water, alligators!
I think that is where the issue is going to be.
If McDonalds's has to put "Caution Hot" on a hot cup of coffee or baseball stadiums need to have signs in foul ball areas that read "Be Alert: Foul Balls" then why wouldn't Disney be expected to put an alligator warning sign in places where alligators could be?
the poor woman from the mcdonalds incident got third degree burns from reheated coffee that mcdonalds was already warned exceeded safety limits. I do blame disney for this and I love disney. They set up an attraction, a movie night, they knew they had alligators, they advertised people in those waters, they set up chairs, they gave out beach buckets, they enticed their paying invited guests and had a known dangers which they did not disclose. They created an environment and his the danger, which was magnified by being at night, during mating season, and when they feed. I don't think a guest from Nebraska would know that alligators would be in a lake. Maybe a person from Florida would, but not someone from Nebraska. I could see the no swimming warning for bacteria, or no life guard on duty, but they were not swimming, they were walking in the water.
Yes. All of this.
If I am walking in the woods, in a National Park, and a bear attacks me, I really can't sue the National Park. It's known that there are bears in the wild.
Same thing with swimming in the ocean- you know there are sharks. It's going into the wild so to speak.
But at an expensive resort, with lounge chairs, activities on the "beach" etc etc I would expect a level of safety that I wouldn't in the ocean or the woods.
And I am not a Disney goer but from what everyone has been saying on this thread, they are known for taking a lot of safety precaution apparently. So if I was in Disney, where they supposedly put their guests' safety as a big priority, I would NOT expect an alligator to be lurking where they have this kind of set up and NO signs indicating as such.
That's all.
All this. Not only is it open to interpretation and unclear, but a no swimming sign is useless if it's not enforced. Countless people are posting pics of their kids in the water and disney allowed it, encouraged it with activities. I don't understand if disney knew gators were present, did their best to remove them, why did they risk allowing people in the water. Why not enforce it? It's so sad this little boy had to lose his life for the issue to be taken seriously.
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| Posted 6/17/16 5:18 PM |
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Hofstra26
Love to Bake!
Member since 7/06 27915 total posts
Name:
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Re: Alligator Attack in Disney
Posted by BabyBMakes3
A rope fence is being put up today. Some people on the Disney pages I'm on are actually PISSED about it and I cannot fathom why.
Putting this whole alligator incident aside, I don't get why they would be annoyed. They should've always had it for the simple fact that the lagoon is absolutely GROSS! It's the darkest , murkiest water. You couldn't pay me to touch that water and I LOVE Disney. But the lagoon,  .
ETA - I am actually surprised they ever let anyone near the water, let alone in it given the fact that it's stagnant water which is prone to bacteria, especially coupled with FL heat and the swamp like conditions.
Message edited 6/17/2016 5:26:28 PM.
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| Posted 6/17/16 5:23 PM |
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alli3131
Peanut is here!!!!!!
Member since 5/09 18388 total posts
Name:
Allison
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Re: Alligator Attack in Disney
Posted by BabyBMakes3
A rope fence is being put up today. Some people on the Disney pages I'm on are actually PISSED about it and I cannot fathom why.
A rope fence may keep people out but it won't solve the gator issue. Gators can walk around the rope.
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| Posted 6/17/16 5:42 PM |
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MC09
arrrghhh!!!!
Member since 2/09 5674 total posts
Name:
Me speaks pirate!
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Re: Alligator Attack in Disney
Posted by alli3131
Posted by BabyBMakes3
A rope fence is being put up today. Some people on the Disney pages I'm on are actually PISSED about it and I cannot fathom why.
A rope fence may keep people out but it won't solve the gator issue. Gators can walk around the rope.
I thought the same. I'm no gator expert, never lived in FL, but wouldn't an alligator be able to get come out of he water, come up shore and drag a kid into the water who isn't even in the water?
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| Posted 6/17/16 5:47 PM |
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MichLiz213
Life is Good!
Member since 7/07 7979 total posts
Name:
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Re: Alligator Attack in Disney
Posted by MC09
Posted by alli3131
Posted by BabyBMakes3
A rope fence is being put up today. Some people on the Disney pages I'm on are actually PISSED about it and I cannot fathom why.
A rope fence may keep people out but it won't solve the gator issue. Gators can walk around the rope.
I thought the same. I'm no gator expert, never lived in FL, but wouldn't an alligator be able to get come out of he water, come up shore and drag a kid into the water who isn't even in the water?
CNN Article
This article has some good information.
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| Posted 6/17/16 5:57 PM |
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Christine2
LIF Adult
Member since 2/09 1216 total posts
Name:
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Re: Alligator Attack in Disney
So, if the risk of a serious injury (not necessarily death) from an alligator attack is 1 in 2.4 million, is Disney really at fault? This is a freak accident.
That being said, the damage has been done. A beautiful little boy is dead. At least Disney is doing something to be more proactive in the future.
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| Posted 6/17/16 8:59 PM |
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MC09
arrrghhh!!!!
Member since 2/09 5674 total posts
Name:
Me speaks pirate!
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Re: Alligator Attack in Disney
Posted by Christine2
So, if the risk of a serious injury (not necessarily death) from an alligator attack is 1 in 2.4 million, is Disney really at fault? This is a freak accident.
That being said, the damage has been done. A beautiful little boy is dead. At least Disney is doing something to be more proactive in the future.
IMO they are at fault because they knew the risk existed even if it was slim, knew it was possible for a gator to enter despite their best efforts, and the only thing stopping patrons was an ambiguous sign that wasn't even enforced by management. They knew children continued to play in the water, they encouraged it by handing out buckets and having beach activities, and advertised the location as a beach resort. 2.5 million seems improbable but think how many millions of people visit disney a year, during the months when gators are most active.
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| Posted 6/17/16 9:53 PM |
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BargainMama
LIF Adult
Member since 5/09 15657 total posts
Name:
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Re: Alligator Attack in Disney
Posted by BabyBMakes3
A rope fence is being put up today. Some people on the Disney pages I'm on are actually PISSED about it and I cannot fathom why.
Most of the people in the Disney groups and especially the Disboards, are the most miserable, know it all, jerks you will ever come across. I can't understand it because they have such an interest in the "Happiest Place On Earth" 
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| Posted 6/18/16 9:21 AM |
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BargainMama
LIF Adult
Member since 5/09 15657 total posts
Name:
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Re: Alligator Attack in Disney
Posted by chilltocam
Here's another pic I saw posted online. Whether you consider this to be swimming or not, clearly the signs posted by Disney we inadequate to keep people out of the water. From everything I've seen and read this week, I highly doubt this was an unusual scene at that (or any other) resort. So, Disney KNEW people (and especially young kids) were going in that water and Disney KNEW there were alligators in that water. It's really sad that it had to come to this for Disney to do something about it.
IMAGE
This picture is the second one I've seen on here with the people in the background IN the water with the pirate type bandanas on their head searching for something. Both of my kids have done the pirate cruises several times, but were never allowed IN the water. So now I'm wondering what this is in the background. Clearly it's a Disney event though! I can't believe that was even allowed!
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| Posted 6/18/16 9:25 AM |
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Re: Alligator Attack in Disney
Posted by BabyBMakes3
A rope fence is being put up today. Some people on the Disney pages I'm on are actually PISSED about it and I cannot fathom why.
I don't think the the rope fence will help at all. In a few months when this all dies down people will cross over to rinse off their feet etc.
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| Posted 6/18/16 9:32 AM |
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DancinBarefoot
06ers Rock!!
Member since 1/07 9534 total posts
Name:
The One My Mother Gave Me ;-)
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Alligator Attack in Disney
Hindsight is 20/20. It is all fine and well for people to say Disney should have done XYZ. The reality is that it is commonplace to have movie night along the shore at many of the resorts. This is the first time an alligator snatched a child from the shore line since Disney opened its doors. The fact that they didn't have signs, to me, means they didn't think it was a danger. By all accounts they regularly work with the state to remove gators. Removal cuts both ways. If you are proactive about removing them, why would you think there is a threat? OTOH, they are obviously only removing them because left alone they are a threat. Sammy Duvall watersports operates on Bay Lake which is adjacent to Seven Seas Lagoon. They offer waterskiing and other activities that will get you wet. To the best of my knowledge (and I"m sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong) they haven't permanently closed up shop as a result of this tragic accident. There haven't even been reports that they suspended operation temporarily. There will certainly be changes at Disney as a result of the horrific events, but I don't think there is blame to be laid anywhere. Not on Disney, and most certainly not at the feet of those grieving parents.
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| Posted 6/18/16 4:35 PM |
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butterfly20
Party of 5 - 2015
Member since 4/06 7390 total posts
Name:
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Re: Alligator Attack in Disney
Posted by MichLiz213
Posted by MC09
Posted by alli3131
Posted by BabyBMakes3
A rope fence is being put up today. Some people on the Disney pages I'm on are actually PISSED about it and I cannot fathom why.
A rope fence may keep people out but it won't solve the gator issue. Gators can walk around the rope.
I thought the same. I'm no gator expert, never lived in FL, but wouldn't an alligator be able to get come out of he water, come up shore and drag a kid into the water who isn't even in the water?
CNN Article
This article has some good information.
a rope fence won't save the gator issue? the attack didn't happen in the sand, it happened in a foot of water. Yes gators could come on land, but they aren't that fast then... A guest can outrun them.
a bird can pick up a gator egg and drop it anywhere, so even if Disney erects a cement wall(which hey, maybe they will because I saw an article which claims this is a temporary fence til permanent solution in place).. then in theory the bird could drop it anywhere in the parks/resorts, or even the airport I suppose...
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| Posted 6/19/16 12:31 AM |
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BabyBMakes3
LIF Adolescent
Member since 4/13 711 total posts
Name:
Laura
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Re: Alligator Attack in Disney
Not to 
...but theres video floating around of a CM trying to keep a gator away from guests on Splash Mountain...not but a few feet away from them. Lets be real here...whether you think they are at fault with what happened with Lane...the bottom line is they CLEARLY have a KNOWN gator problem in multiple locations on their property that has to be addressed.
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| Posted 6/20/16 9:52 AM |
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eroxgirl
My Loves
Member since 5/05 15697 total posts
Name:
Rebecca
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Re: Alligator Attack in Disney
Posted by BabyBMakes3
Not to
...but theres video floating around of a CM trying to keep a gator away from guests on Splash Mountain...not but a few feet away from them. Lets be real here...whether you think they are at fault with what happened with Lane...the bottom line is they CLEARLY have a KNOWN gator problem in multiple locations on their property that has to be addressed.
It is clearly a known problem in the entire state of Florida, that is really my point. You cannot prevent all accidents or injury. It is not possible. Should we close all of Florida and Louisiana?
If an earthquake happens in New York, all of Manhattan will be flattened and 2 million people will be dead. But the likelihood is slim and we've still built some of the tallest skyscrapers in the world here. Are the developers of these buildings to blame, even though this is a known risk? No, because it is highly unlikely to occur, but it's not impossible.
Posted by Christine2
So, if the risk of a serious injury (not necessarily death) from an alligator attack is 1 in 2.4 million, is Disney really at fault? This is a freak accident.
That being said, the damage has been done. A beautiful little boy is dead. At least Disney is doing something to be more proactive in the future.
I completely agree with this. It is a freak accident and people/entities cannot always be responsible for every accident that occurs, especially when you're dealing with wild animals. They do, however, have the responsibility to take action now and prevent another tragedy in the future.
Posted by DancinBarefoot
Hindsight is 20/20. It is all fine and well for people to say Disney should have done XYZ. The reality is that it is commonplace to have movie night along the shore at many of the resorts. This is the first time an alligator snatched a child from the shore line since Disney opened its doors. The fact that they didn't have signs, to me, means they didn't think it was a danger. By all accounts they regularly work with the state to remove gators. Removal cuts both ways. If you are proactive about removing them, why would you think there is a threat? OTOH, they are obviously only removing them because left alone they are a threat. Sammy Duvall watersports operates on Bay Lake which is adjacent to Seven Seas Lagoon. They offer waterskiing and other activities that will get you wet. To the best of my knowledge (and I"m sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong) they haven't permanently closed up shop as a result of this tragic accident. There haven't even been reports that they suspended operation temporarily. There will certainly be changes at Disney as a result of the horrific events, but I don't think there is blame to be laid anywhere. Not on Disney, and most certainly not at the feet of those grieving parents.
And all of this.
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| Posted 6/20/16 10:25 AM |
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Hofstra26
Love to Bake!
Member since 7/06 27915 total posts
Name:
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Re: Alligator Attack in Disney
Posted by BabyBMakes3
Not to
...but theres video floating around of a CM trying to keep a gator away from guests on Splash Mountain...not but a few feet away from them. Lets be real here...whether you think they are at fault with what happened with Lane...the bottom line is they CLEARLY have a KNOWN gator problem in multiple locations on their property that has to be addressed.
But I don't think you can call it a "gator problem" as if it's a problem specific to Disney. It's Florida. Florida as a whole has a "gator problem". In every town, near every body of water, across the WHOLE state there are gators. I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement on Disney's end in terms of safety precautions however, gators can get into the most unexpected places so to call out Disney as having a "gator problem" seems silly to me. They aren't dealing with anything out of the ordinary here, it's a FL thing and NOT a Disney thing. KWIM?
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| Posted 6/20/16 10:28 AM |
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Hofstra26
Love to Bake!
Member since 7/06 27915 total posts
Name:
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Re: Alligator Attack in Disney
Posted by eroxgirl
Posted by BabyBMakes3
Not to
...but theres video floating around of a CM trying to keep a gator away from guests on Splash Mountain...not but a few feet away from them. Lets be real here...whether you think they are at fault with what happened with Lane...the bottom line is they CLEARLY have a KNOWN gator problem in multiple locations on their property that has to be addressed.
It is clearly a known problem in the entire state of Florida, that is really my point. You cannot prevent all accidents or injury. It is not possible. Should we close all of Florida and Louisiana?
If an earthquake happens in New York, all of Manhattan will be flattened and 2 million people will be dead. But the likelihood is slim and we've still built some of the tallest skyscrapers in the world here. Are the developers of these buildings to blame, even though this is a known risk? No, because it is highly unlikely to occur, but it's not impossible.
Posted by Christine2
So, if the risk of a serious injury (not necessarily death) from an alligator attack is 1 in 2.4 million, is Disney really at fault? This is a freak accident.
That being said, the damage has been done. A beautiful little boy is dead. At least Disney is doing something to be more proactive in the future.
I completely agree with this. It is a freak accident and people/entities cannot always be responsible for every accident that occurs, especially when you're dealing with wild animals. They do, however, have the responsibility to take action now and prevent another tragedy in the future.
Posted by DancinBarefoot
Hindsight is 20/20. It is all fine and well for people to say Disney should have done XYZ. The reality is that it is commonplace to have movie night along the shore at many of the resorts. This is the first time an alligator snatched a child from the shore line since Disney opened its doors. The fact that they didn't have signs, to me, means they didn't think it was a danger. By all accounts they regularly work with the state to remove gators. Removal cuts both ways. If you are proactive about removing them, why would you think there is a threat? OTOH, they are obviously only removing them because left alone they are a threat. Sammy Duvall watersports operates on Bay Lake which is adjacent to Seven Seas Lagoon. They offer waterskiing and other activities that will get you wet. To the best of my knowledge (and I"m sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong) they haven't permanently closed up shop as a result of this tragic accident. There haven't even been reports that they suspended operation temporarily. There will certainly be changes at Disney as a result of the horrific events, but I don't think there is blame to be laid anywhere. Not on Disney, and most certainly not at the feet of those grieving parents.
And all of this.
ITA with ALL of this 100%!
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| Posted 6/20/16 10:29 AM |
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sfp0701
Liam's Mommy!
Member since 1/07 9764 total posts
Name:
Tricia
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Re: Alligator Attack in Disney
I think it is worth pointing out that at the shades of Green (military owned resort across the street from the Polynesian- not Disney owned but, on Disney property).... There are alligator signs all over. While walking around the resort I saw a baby alligator and the bus driver for shades of green told me there are tons of gators there.. they even had a known huge one at Disney called Bubba or something. So if the resorts down the block had gator warning signs.. why didn't Disney?
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| Posted 6/20/16 10:49 AM |
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sfp0701
Liam's Mommy!
Member since 1/07 9764 total posts
Name:
Tricia
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Re: Alligator Attack in Disney
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by LSP2005
Posted by KGools
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by eroxgirl
Posted by MC09
So, if I open a business, and I'm aware there is a potentially life threatening danger lurking, I even do regular sweeps but it's difficult to completely eliminate this danger... and I don't adequately warn my patrons of the existence of that danger, and one of my patrons is attacked and seriously injured or dies, I'm not accountable right? Cool, good to know.
I'm quite sure it falls under a "reasonable best efforts" clause. WHEN they know that alligators have made their way onto their property, they clear them out.
Disclaimer: I work for lawyers and should be editing a document with these phrases in it but instead I'm here because this is more interesting.
No business, no human, no living thing can be 100% perfect. If Disney maintains it's reasonable best efforts to keep its waters free from indigenous species that may cause harm to patrons, then they are not liable. I'm sure signs will be up by the end of the week, however, they are not negligent just because they don't have signs up saying that alligators may be present, when in their 40 year history, there has never before been an alligator attack on their property.
But alligators are indigenous to Florida, not just Disney but Disney World was built on swamp land. Do we need to put signs in the airport saying so? Do we need signs in California airports alerting travelers that there may be earthquakes or brush fires?
But wouldn't a sign warning of the gators be considered a part of that "reasonable best effort"?
I feel like ok maybe they made some effort, but they didn't make the best effort.
Best effort to me would not be a sign saying- no swimming- which we see here is up for interpretation. Best effort should have been a sign saying, don't go near the water, alligators!
I think that is where the issue is going to be.
If McDonalds's has to put "Caution Hot" on a hot cup of coffee or baseball stadiums need to have signs in foul ball areas that read "Be Alert: Foul Balls" then why wouldn't Disney be expected to put an alligator warning sign in places where alligators could be?
the poor woman from the mcdonalds incident got third degree burns from reheated coffee that mcdonalds was already warned exceeded safety limits. I do blame disney for this and I love disney. They set up an attraction, a movie night, they knew they had alligators, they advertised people in those waters, they set up chairs, they gave out beach buckets, they enticed their paying invited guests and had a known dangers which they did not disclose. They created an environment and his the danger, which was magnified by being at night, during mating season, and when they feed. I don't think a guest from Nebraska would know that alligators would be in a lake. Maybe a person from Florida would, but not someone from Nebraska. I could see the no swimming warning for bacteria, or no life guard on duty, but they were not swimming, they were walking in the water.
Yes. All of this.
If I am walking in the woods, in a National Park, and a bear attacks me, I really can't sue the National Park. It's known that there are bears in the wild.
Same thing with swimming in the ocean- you know there are sharks. It's going into the wild so to speak.
But at an expensive resort, with lounge chairs, activities on the "beach" etc etc I would expect a level of safety that I wouldn't in the ocean or the woods.
And I am not a Disney goer but from what everyone has been saying on this thread, they are known for taking a lot of safety precaution apparently. So if I was in Disney, where they supposedly put their guests' safety as a big priority, I would NOT expect an alligator to be lurking where they have this kind of set up and NO signs indicating as such.
That's all.
AND as someone who frequents national parks and camps all over.. there are TONS of signs warning of the dangers.. bears, ticks, snakes etc. Some parks even had daily updates on the days bear sightings. They hand out pamphlets on how to prevent attracting bears and what to do when you see one. So even there.. they warn. Disney was negligent. Plain and simple.
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| Posted 6/20/16 10:56 AM |
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BabyBMakes3
LIF Adolescent
Member since 4/13 711 total posts
Name:
Laura
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Re: Alligator Attack in Disney
Posted by Hofstra26
Posted by BabyBMakes3
Not to
...but theres video floating around of a CM trying to keep a gator away from guests on Splash Mountain...not but a few feet away from them. Lets be real here...whether you think they are at fault with what happened with Lane...the bottom line is they CLEARLY have a KNOWN gator problem in multiple locations on their property that has to be addressed.
But I don't think you can call it a "gator problem" as if it's a problem specific to Disney. It's Florida. Florida as a whole has a "gator problem". In every town, near every body of water, across the WHOLE state there are gators. I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement on Disney's end in terms of safety precautions however, gators can get into the most unexpected places so to call out Disney as having a "gator problem" seems silly to me. They aren't dealing with anything out of the ordinary here, it's a FL thing and NOT a Disney thing. KWIM?
Normally, I would agree with this. I am one of those non FL residents who understands there are gators in FL. I'm not saying it's a Disney-specific problem. It's a statewide problem, I get that. And while I'm also someone who doesn't "blame" Disney for what happened...I DO feel like they have an obligation to do more to protect their guests now that the potential for such a terrible accident has occured and they KNOW they are in addictional places on the property.
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| Posted 6/20/16 10:58 AM |
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