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| Bops |
a personal trainer for horse-back riding  ????...As I've mentioned before my DH pays 50% of all my SD's extra-curricular activities, and his original agreement did not have any cap or limit making DH an open check-book, when trying to have that modified after BM does not show any self control, was told no, should have thought about a cap when the agreement was written...Well here we are paying for horse lessons ( stable and horse only), competition cheerleading, and now on top of that a personal horse trainer - I'm waiting for the receipt for the horse to come in the mail next  - BM also said she was getting her an instructor for private "cello" lessons- HUH ?????
She recently stepped out of group ice-skating lessons which we also were paying a private instructor for seperate lessons for $38 for a 20 minute lesson sometimes 2x a week on top of everything else ! BM said "temporaritly stopped" so how the he!! are we supposed to afford all of this on top of CS ??? My own DS is in nothing (except pre-school 2x a week) and we have a baby on the way, not to mention that due to the brainwashing, SD doesnt even visit anymore, so we don't even get to see her participate in these activities ! We are both happy that she's in an activity, but enough is enough- and when is she just allowed to be a kid and PLAY ???...BM is totally living vicariously through both her daughters because she dropped out of HS, but she is going to ruin these kids  And how exactly are we supposed to put anything aside for colllege ? Not to mention, SD will definately need braces, and DH is responsible for 100% of that, which I'm sure we will have no-forewarning of, and just get a $5K bill in the mail...Why oh why does this woman have to be so un-reasonable
Posted 10/16/08 4:17 PM
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| LIPrincess |
I am so sorry you are going through this, but I would definately talk to another atty. There has to be some limit on "extras". Also, are you seeing the bills? Are you sure that your not paying the whole thing?
Was it the court that said it couldn't be modified or another atty?
Posted 10/16/08 4:27 PM
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| Bops |
Posted by LIPrincess
I am so sorry you are going through this, but I would definately talk to another atty. There has to be some limit on "extras". Also, are you seeing the bills? Are you sure that your not paying the whole thing?
Was it the court that said it couldn't be modified or another atty?
Yes, it was the court- The judge was pretty much fair on everything else except for the extra-curricular activity thing and I was totally boggled- All my DH asked for was a "cap"- he didnt even give a $ amount, just something to keep it within normal limits....
As for receipts- What we get is the copy of the front of her check that was written for most things- Almost never a receipt from the actual establishment- I have major issues with her proof of payment - DH also brought that up at the last court session and the judge didnt really give a response and DH didnt persue it (I wish i could be his mouth-piece, hes way too passive)..So for all we know, we are paying 100% - I know HB rididng is expensive and when she bought her the boots and helmet etc.. we got a store receipt for that one, so I'm "assuming" she really goes to lessons, how much she actually pays is up for debate.....DH had called the ice-rink once about her group lessons and those fees were accurate, but the private instructor she had for ice-skating was a cash deal, no receipts and she was very chummy with the instructor, so I'm certain we payed 100% or more for those...This is such a lose lose situation here- Especially with the economy the way it is heading, who is putting their children in all these activites, when there are so many free things offered at school (that we pay for with our taxes !)
Posted 10/16/08 4:46 PM
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| legallyblonde |
That is ridiculous. Totally ridiculous. How can she expect you guys to pay for all of that? I can understand splitting "the usual": soccer, softball, gymanastics, girlscouts, dancing school whatever, but those are extremely expensive activities! What's next? Sailing? She's going to need a boat for that! Croquet at the country club? Singing lessons at The Met? Jeez!
I don't think a child should be deprived of participating in whatever they want, but BM needs to consult with you before enrolling SD in these activities. That just is not fair.
I agree that you should consult with another attorney or have your current attorney appeal the Order. That's not right.
Posted 10/16/08 4:48 PM
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| Bops |
Posted by legallyblonde
That is ridiculous. Totally ridiculous. How can she expect you guys to pay for all of that? I can understand splitting "the usual": soccer, softball, gymanastics, girlscouts, dancing school whatever, but those are extremely expensive activities! What's next? Sailing? She's going to need a boat for that! Croquet at the country club? Singing lessons at The Met? Jeez!
I don't think a child should be deprived of participating in whatever they want, but BM needs to consult with you before enrolling SD in these activities. That just is not fair.
I agree that you should consult with another attorney or have your current attorney appeal the Order. That's not right.
Thank you for making me  ! You would think they live in some high faluttin (sp?) town or something- She lives in the William Floyd School District (nothing wrong with the school district, my point is that the zip code is not 90210) I think she tries to fill this childs schedules so much that she doesn't have time to miss her father or think about what was taken from her- Mom looks like the super-hero to her daughter and everyone else and I'm sure SD has no idea that my DH writes out checks to pay for these things every month (not that at 11 she should know the details, but she also shouldnt think her father doesnt contribute) ...We are waiting fot the next court bomb to drop - Im sure when the baby arrives, and then hopefully DH will bring these things to the courts attention again and maybe they will be more understanding given the economy- Maybe they will also question why BM has so much extra $$$ laying around for all these extravagant things
Posted 10/16/08 5:02 PM
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| 1stimemom |
Posted by legallyblonde
That is ridiculous. Totally ridiculous. How can she expect you guys to pay for all of that? I can understand splitting "the usual": soccer, softball, gymanastics, girlscouts, dancing school whatever, but those are extremely expensive activities! What's next? Sailing? She's going to need a boat for that! Croquet at the country club? Singing lessons at The Met? Jeez!
I don't think a child should be deprived of participating in whatever they want, but BM needs to consult with you before enrolling SD in these activities. That just is not fair.
I agree that you should consult with another attorney or have your current attorney appeal the Order. That's not right.
ITA on all counts!! 
Posted 10/16/08 5:03 PM
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| hbugal |
While it is true that DH does have to pay half of her extra curricular activities it is also true that he has some say in what she can participate in and how his money is spent....
They were never, I know, but do they have joint custody? B/C with that comes some ability to make decisions....he could have her on that...
Posted 10/16/08 5:15 PM
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| Bops |
Posted by hbugal
While it is true that DH does have to pay half of her extra curricular activities it is also true that he has some say in what she can participate in and how his money is spent....
They were never, I know, but do they have joint custody? B/C with that comes some ability to make decisions....he could have her on that...
Yes, they have joint custody ( which so far hasn't meant a darn thing) ...DH has told BM that he can't swing it in the past and that she needs to give him a heads up "before" she signs her up for things to no avail..She always ends up turning it around, and he gives in ...As of the past 2 years, all contact between DH and BM has been via letters, no phone conversations - so his input has been even more limited and he has just been going with the flow because he simply has no more energy to fight with her over any of it  Never ONCE , even when things were somewhat copastetic, has she so much as even asked my DH his opinion on anything related to SD- She acts as if she owns this child- and that my DH is a ATM machine with "babysitters" rights, if that makes sense....It makes me so and  at the same time ...
Posted 10/16/08 6:22 PM
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| 1stimemom |
Posted by Bops
my DH is a ATM machine with "babysitters" rights, if that makes sense....It makes me so and at the same time ...
I know that feeling.. for sure 
Posted 10/16/08 6:41 PM
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| KarenG2003 |
I'm so sorry you have to deal with this. The number of activities your SD is in is CRAZY!! Is it affecting her performance in school at all? Your DH could always use that as an excuse for BM to cut back on the extra-curricular stuff. My SD just turned 11 and is in 6th grade, and is not performing well academically this school year. Going from elementary to middle school is a big transition, and being involved in so many extra activities just complicates things.
Again, I'm very sorry you're in this situation. It really does stink to feel helpless and "controlled" by BM. I know all about it. 
Posted 10/16/08 8:56 PM
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| Bops |
Posted by KarenG2003
I'm so sorry you have to deal with this. The number of activities your SD is in is CRAZY!! Is it affecting her performance in school at all? Your DH could always use that as an excuse for BM to cut back on the extra-curricular stuff. My SD just turned 11 and is in 6th grade, and is not performing well academically this school year. Going from elementary to middle school is a big transition, and being involved in so many extra activities just complicates things.
Again, I'm very sorry you're in this situation. It really does stink to feel helpless and "controlled" by BM. I know all about it.
She is an average student I would say- my SD is very meek and has a very timid personality so the teachers like her which I'm sure helps her grades tremendously...Next year she will be in middle school, so I'm curious to see how well she does then- The BM told the court and I quote " It keeps my daughter off the streets"- Ok, as true as that may be, keeping your child "off the streets' in 5 th grade really should not be a major concern if you are a good parent IMO- and she should have more time just to be a kid and not have every spare minute of her time consumed with planned activities. I honestly have no idea when she does her homework or anything else for that matter- So frusturating- thank you to everyone for making me feel like I'm not crazy 
Posted 10/16/08 10:25 PM
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| legallyblonde |
I have a question for you. I know you said that SD doesn't come to visit with you guys anymore. What would happen if DH said to BM "Okay. I'll pay for 1/2 of the horse trainer but I want a schedule of when all these shows are and I'm going to be at ALL of them. I also want the schedule for all of her extra curricular activities b/c we are coming." ? How would that go over? Do you think that would help get you back into SD's life without freaking the child out?
I don't know how your DH is, but I know if my DH was in the situation, he wouldn't want to say "I'm not paying unless she comes to see me" b/c it could make matters worse but the reality of it is, it's just not fair. Contrary to popular opinion of BM, he is NOT an ATM.
I also read that you said she's 11 and has no idea that he pays for all of this stuff. We had a similar situation with 9 y.o. SD a few weeks ago, where she was screaming at us that we don't take her to buy clothing. My DH got so frustrated with her he just told her "I give mommy money every month for you. If you need anything, you tell her and she will take you. If there is a problem, let me know." Was that right? I don't know but now she knows that we aren't deadbeats. Maybe your SD needs to know that too.
I wish you guys lots of luck. You are in such a tough situation.
Posted 10/17/08 7:51 AM
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| Bops |
Posted by legallyblonde
I have a question for you. I know you said that SD doesn't come to visit with you guys anymore. What would happen if DH said to BM "Okay. I'll pay for 1/2 of the horse trainer but I want a schedule of when all these shows are and I'm going to be at ALL of them. I also want the schedule for all of her extra curricular activities b/c we are coming." ? How would that go over? Do you think that would help get you back into SD's life without freaking the child out?
I don't know how your DH is, but I know if my DH was in the situation, he wouldn't want to say "I'm not paying unless she comes to see me" b/c it could make matters worse but the reality of it is, it's just not fair. Contrary to popular opinion of BM, he is NOT an ATM.
I also read that you said she's 11 and has no idea that he pays for all of this stuff. We had a similar situation with 9 y.o. SD a few weeks ago, where she was screaming at us that we don't take her to buy clothing. My DH got so frustrated with her he just told her "I give mommy money every month for you. If you need anything, you tell her and she will take you. If there is a problem, let me know." Was that right? I don't know but now she knows that we aren't deadbeats. Maybe your SD needs to know that too.
I wish you guys lots of luck. You are in such a tough situation.
See with this BM- my DH asking for the dates of events becomes a subtle weapon for BM for her to further sabotage any chance of future reconnciliation between SD and DH...Yes- to answer your question she would give him a list of dates, just so she can have it in writing that "she's doing the right thing" if it was ever brought up in court- But then when it would come down to the actual event, she would work my SD up so much that we were going to be there, that SD would be visiabbly upset to everyone to see - and not even know why shes upset(so that she could then use that against him, if need be) BM is a head-case point blank...So as my DH sees it, it pushes my SD further away and probably makes her physically ill that she is letting her mother down and not acting out...BM caused a whole commotion at SD communion ( at the beginning when everything started to unravel- shortly after our DS was born)...We were all there as a family and BM lost it- acted totally irrational in church and everything, assumably out of jealousy ??...Almost that she was intimidated that SD actually "enjoyed" people other than her- sick...BM has also whisked her away without saying good-bye at her ice-skating competitions in the past and you could just see the look on my SD face, n ot knowing what to do ...I like to think my SD is actually more like my DH personality wise, she definately has a conscience and is a sweet kid deep down but the power her mother has over her is incredible...
As for her knowing what we pay for- The only time DH has said anything to her- was a way back- she told DH she needed new sneakers (may I add, I am a shop-a-holic and was always buying her tons of things, for no reason, just "because") and DH said - "I'll let your mom know, I give her $ every month to buy you clothes and things like that"...That was the extent of it....Who knows what BM tells her- like I said, she's "Super Mom"- meanwhile paying with others peoples money (as I've mentioned before BM alkso has an older daughter that she also collects CS and all these "extras' from also )
Posted 10/17/08 9:14 AM
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| legallyblonde |
Posted by Bops
Posted by legallyblonde
See with this BM- my DH asking for the dates of events becomes a subtle weapon for BM for her to further sabotage any chance of future reconnciliation between SD and DH...Yes- to answer your question she would give him a list of dates, just so she can have it in writing that "she's doing the right thing" if it was ever brought up in court- But then when it would come down to the actual event, she would work my SD up so much that we were going to be there, that SD would be visiabbly upset to everyone to see - and not even know why shes upset(so that she could then use that against him, if need be) BM is a head-case point blank...So as my DH sees it, it pushes my SD further away and probably makes her physically ill that she is letting her mother down and not acting out...BM caused a whole commotion at SD communion ( at the beginning when everything started to unravel- shortly after our DS was born)...We were all there as a family and BM lost it- acted totally irrational in church and everything, assumably out of jealousy ??...Almost that she was intimidated that SD actually "enjoyed" people other than her- sick...BM has also whisked her away without saying good-bye at her ice-skating competitions in the past and you could just see the look on my SD face, n ot knowing what to do ...I like to think my SD is actually more like my DH personality wise, she definately has a conscience and is a sweet kid deep down but the power her mother has over her is incredible...
Would it work if he said "Give me the schedule. We are going to come when we can." And then that way the mother doesn't have the opportunity to work the SD up b/c BM won't know if he's coming or not? Or will she just get the kid crazy on EVERY occasion, just in case? God, she sounds like a real wacko. I wonder if things go the same way with her other kid and that kid's dad. If so, him and DH should ban together!
Posted 10/17/08 10:06 AM
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| Lucky2008 |
Unfortunately in situations like this it is easier said than done. I totally understand what you are dealing with as my SD's mother sounds just like your SD's mother. Your DH needs to just have a talk with her and tell her no more activities. It is very hard to do though because somehow it gets back to the child in a negative way such as "dad doesnt want to pay for your activities anymore"
My SD's mother has brainwashed her by telling her that DH does not pay child support so he has been trying to prove himself these past few months - she still believes her mother.
Posted 10/17/08 1:04 PM
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| Bops |
Posted by legallyblonde
Posted by Bops
Posted by legallyblonde
See with this BM- my DH asking for the dates of events becomes a subtle weapon for BM for her to further sabotage any chance of future reconnciliation between SD and DH...Yes- to answer your question she would give him a list of dates, just so she can have it in writing that "she's doing the right thing" if it was ever brought up in court- But then when it would come down to the actual event, she would work my SD up so much that we were going to be there, that SD would be visiabbly upset to everyone to see - and not even know why shes upset(so that she could then use that against him, if need be) BM is a head-case point blank...So as my DH sees it, it pushes my SD further away and probably makes her physically ill that she is letting her mother down and not acting out...BM caused a whole commotion at SD communion ( at the beginning when everything started to unravel- shortly after our DS was born)...We were all there as a family and BM lost it- acted totally irrational in church and everything, assumably out of jealousy ??...Almost that she was intimidated that SD actually "enjoyed" people other than her- sick...BM has also whisked her away without saying good-bye at her ice-skating competitions in the past and you could just see the look on my SD face, n ot knowing what to do ...I like to think my SD is actually more like my DH personality wise, she definately has a conscience and is a sweet kid deep down but the power her mother has over her is incredible...
Would it work if he said "Give me the schedule. We are going to come when we can." And then that way the mother doesn't have the opportunity to work the SD up b/c BM won't know if he's coming or not? Or will she just get the kid crazy on EVERY occasion, just in case? God, she sounds like a real wacko. I wonder if things go the same way with her other kid and that kid's dad. If so, him and DH should ban together!
She would probably just get my SD crazy on every occasion - Either that or she will tell her something along the lines of " your father wants to come to your events, but don't worry about it now" or something like that- With PAS. the alienating parent generally puts a subtle fear into the child by saying things to make them think something bad will happen or that they are being put into danger ( ex: dont worry- it won't be THAT bad, or if you need me call me (if they are vsiiting) All of this would probably put the kabosh on the little bit of progress that has been made since all this BS started - for instance, on her own free will- my SD made and mailed my DH a fathers day card for the 1st time in 2 years- sounds small but to us- it was HUGE !
As for the older daughters father- this is comical...When DH was dating BM (never were married), my DH was with her and the older daughter from when the child was 4 months till 4 years old (living together some of that time) ...BM was back and forth court with the other dad, telling my DH and the courts alll kinds of terrible things about him etc..She even got in trouble w/ the courts for trying to make the girl call my DH daddy- which my DH never wanted, but BM used it as a psychological blow to the father of the girl...She accused him of sexual abuse ( all false, from what I'm told) , had him arrested for trespassing all kinds of things...Slowly my DH caught on that she was just a psycho and making things up , but got attached to the older daughter and then my SD came along...So to sum it up, the relationship with the older daughters father has always been horrendous...fast forward to when everything went sour with BM and my DH and suddenly she is best friends with the other father- Again, with Parental Alienation Syndrome, the alienator finds key people to have on their side to build a front against the alienated parent- Who better than the father of her older daughter to say what a great relationship they have ? For example, my DH spoke to SD on the phone to tell her about the new sibling coming about a month ago- 1st time they have spoken on the phone in a very long time- Right away, SD goes on to tell my DH that they are leaving for upstate to stay at the sisters fathers vacation house - WHAT ?????? This is the man who was SO terrible to your older daughter - fought for him to have zero custody right and now as a big happy family, your spending a week-end with him ?????...And the father of the older daughter is sort of in the same predicament as my DH, is probably so tired of fighting with the BM that he's happy that theres peace and has put the past behind them for now ( did I mention, he was never re-married and has no other chilldren ?) Errrrr...I wish I could write this all in a book- these posts aren't long enough and I honestly haven't even gotten past the tip of the ice-berg !
Message edited 10/17/2008 1:46:52 PM.
Posted 10/17/08 1:39 PM
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| Bops |
Here are some points from a PAS web-site so yopu guys can better understand what we are up against if you are interested- its actually very sad, but just about everything thats mentioned my DH and SD have suffered through:
http://www.breakthroughparenting.com/PAS.htm
Posted 10/17/08 1:44 PM
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| Lucky2008 |
I am sorry - it is a frustrating situation. It sounds like you are dealing with the same exact things my DH and I are dealing with when it comes to SD and her mother and PAS.....if you ever want to just vent, feel free to FM me.
Posted 10/17/08 2:40 PM
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| Bops |
Posted by Lucky2008
I am sorry - it is a frustrating situation. It sounds like you are dealing with the same exact things my DH and I are dealing with when it comes to SD and her mother and PAS.....if you ever want to just vent, feel free to FM me.
Thank you It really is sad and all we can hope for is that when my SD is a bit older and breaks out of the web her mother has woven around her, that she escapes as a healthy adult and can see what has been done...in the meantime, both she, my DH and our family will miss out on time that cannot be replaced ...How old is your SD ?
Posted 10/17/08 2:54 PM
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| Lucky2008 |
Thank you It really is sad and all we can hope for is that when my SD is a bit older and breaks out of the web her mother has woven around her, that she escapes as a healthy adult and can see what has been done...in the meantime, both she, my DH and our family will miss out on time that cannot be replaced ...How old is your SD ?
You are so right, that is exactly what my DH and I say that one day when she matures, she will understand what an evil thing her mother has done to her and DH. She is 13 which is a tough age to begin with but add that to the situation and it is so much worse. Right now she is not speaking to DH and like you said, so much time is being lost. How is your SD's relationship with your son?
Posted 10/17/08 3:25 PM
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